You're talking to Serenity. And, Early... Serenity is very unhappy.

River ,'Objects In Space'


Buffista Movies 7: Brides for 7 Samurai  

A place to talk about movies--old and new, good and bad, high art and high cheese. It's the place to place your kittens on the award winners, gossip about upcoming fims and discuss DVD releases and extras. Spoiler policy: White font all plot-related discussion until a movie's been in wide release two weeks, and keep the major HSQ in white font until two weeks after the video/DVD release.


§ ita § - Aug 11, 2010 11:31:01 am PDT #10602 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Dent gets more agency than Rachel, but in the end, his death is also about Batman's misery and angst.

I think Nolan likes to kill people to upset his antagonist. Women work most easily, but he's cut a swathe through casts.


le nubian - Aug 11, 2010 11:38:13 am PDT #10603 of 30000
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

an article about Nolan as a director:

[link]

Nolan is clearly comfortable writing and directing movies from a man's perspective and exploring the male psyche - especially as the psyche relates to loneliness, isolation and loss. I don't particularly have a problem with that. his movies entertain me and I like them.

I also have to say that the women character deaths in the movies of Nolan have driven character motivation in such a way that make it believable and obsessive. What else could drive the obsession in "The Prestige" except that shit? That movie goes to some dark dark places and I almost feel like the first woman's character death isn't even the worst of it.

"Memento" had to be structured like that in order for the movie to work. So I don't really feel like they are capricious and not in service of the plot.

I think one woman's character in "Inception" could have had more meat to it, but I am still going back and forth on whether that was intentional or not.


Polter-Cow - Aug 11, 2010 11:40:26 am PDT #10604 of 30000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Yeah, just looking back at his movies, I think many more men are killed than women, numerically speaking, though we don't necessarily see them. For instance, think of all the John G.'s in Memento or all the Hugh Jackmans in The Prestige. Heh. Not that Nolan couldn't do better by women, but I agree with ita. There's a lot of killin'.


§ ita § - Aug 11, 2010 11:41:33 am PDT #10605 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think one woman's character in "Inception" could have had more meat to it, but I am still going back and forth on whether that was intentional or not.

Isn't that something that applies to almost all the characters, though? And lends itself to one interpretation of the plot (not one I share)? Just the breakdown where the people are referred to as "The Mark" "The Forger" "The Point Man" "The Architect", etc, depersonalises them. And I think we only get into Cobb's head because he's the protagonist, Mal's head (inasmuch as we do) because she's the catalyst, and Fischer's head because he's the mark. Everyone else is similarly loosely drawn.


Dana - Aug 11, 2010 11:42:46 am PDT #10606 of 30000
I haven't trusted science since I saw the film "Flubber."

Yeah, just looking back at his movies, I think many more men are killed than women, numerically speaking, though we don't necessarily see them.

But it's not just a body count thing. It's the deaths of women as plot motivators.


le nubian - Aug 11, 2010 11:45:06 am PDT #10607 of 30000
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

In "Inception", I think some of the others are a bit more well-rounded in comparison to the one character. That character exists almost totally as the viewer's surrogate. Which is fine and all, but I wouldn't call any of the others quite that.


§ ita § - Aug 11, 2010 11:50:48 am PDT #10608 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

That character exists almost totally as the viewer's surrogate.

I think she functions more as a prod to the protagonist, honestly. I didn't feel she lasted very long as the person asking my questions, because she leapt very quickly to the one with the insights. And although I came out of it with a major crush on Arthur, I don't think I know anything more about him than I do about her. In fact, even if she is just a surrogate, that's more than Saito or Eames or Yusuf are. They're just job descriptions.


Polter-Cow - Aug 11, 2010 11:51:08 am PDT #10609 of 30000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

From le nubian's article:

He is a filmmaker for people who love plots.

Maybe that's why I love him so much!

A pretty interesting article. Worth a read if you've seen all his movies (as it spoils every single one of them).


le nubian - Aug 11, 2010 11:51:58 am PDT #10610 of 30000
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."

right, P-C?

I love good plotting. I can forgive a whole lot if a movie gives me that.


Laga - Aug 11, 2010 11:53:21 am PDT #10611 of 30000
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.

The Descent has a male character killed early on just to give a female character angst & it passes the Bechdel test.