I think it's the sense of entitlement I get from them. Whatever.

Thanks for the discussion - I was wondering if it was just me.

This sort of falls in the same category (to me) as complaining about people getting on the bus with their noisy and annoying children.

Yeah, but you know, Hec, there's a line and admittedly, it's different for different people, between, "Oh, they're just being babies/kids," and "My God, lady, control your little beast before I kill you."

Example number two is the person who lets their kid run amok in restaurants, crawling under other people's tables, etc., and then gives other customers the stinkeye, should they dare complain about their little darlings. Or lets them run up and down the aisles of a crowded bus while they keep their noses resolutely buried in a book or newspaper, or thinks it's okay for their kids to yank every blessed can off the shelves and drop them to the floor, thus creating hazards. There's just such a tremendous sense of entitlement that, if I can get meta, is the same sense of entitlement that winds up following the little ruggers into school and why teachers have such a hard time giving appropriate grades and punishment. Because the parents won't allow it.

I suspect that the surly gym goers Toddson's describing fall more into category two than category one.

insurance odds of what really affects your longevity and quality of life. I'm not sure how they factor weight into their tables, but I'm pretty sure they do.

Yes, insurance companies have no vested interest whatsoever in narrowing down what constitutes healthfulness.

I am pretty sure that insurance companies use the BMI tables.

I think it's the sense of entitlement I get from them. Whatever.

Man, there are so many people entitled and judgmental I can hardly single them out. You've got the save-the-world evangelizers and PETA people, and surly Vegans, and stylistas and hard charging career types. I fail in all their eyes.

I think self-involved people encroaching on others in public is wrong, whether it's health nuts bumping my with their gym bag to people playing their iPod so loudly that I can hear it from across the aisle to guys who act like it's a huge chore to lift up their bags to clear a seat. I don't know if I would tie it to gym rats specifically, more to a general lack of civility.

As to weight, I hate the BMI tyranny, and I consider myself healthy when I am around 145, even though my Doc wants me to be thinner. I ALSO know that when I creep up to 160 or over, I can feel the lack of energy and my blood pressure goes up. The last decade of life, my dad was pretty much an invalid from congestive heart failure and my mom spent a lot of time taking care of him. I know I inherited his rotten cardiovascular system and I have to be vigilant. So health for me IS a virtue--I want to keep Jason from having to be my caretaker if I can.

Barb, I wonder if part of the reason they separated is the expectations that he had/way he was treating you and your sibs, and now that that's not an issue, she can justify being back with him.

That would have made it easy, but no. They separated because he was a hard drinking, cheating bastard who on occasion did the slapping around thing. In other words, a very typical macho Cuban man of his era.

But of course, now he's changed. *rolling eyes forever*

Yeah, but you know, Hec, there's a line and admittedly, it's different for different people, between, "Oh, they're just being babies/kids," and "My God, lady, control your little beast before I kill you."

Of course. I'm not defending ill-behaved children or lax parents. But even well-behaved children make impositions when they're out and about. They say inappropriate things, they make messes, they're too loud. Even when they're not going feral in a restaurant they impinge on other people. There has to be some space and flex for that.

My personal BMI puts me at "obese", to which I just roll my eyes. My cholesterol is hands down fantastic; total, good, and bad. I smoke (for three more days, anyway), I do little to no exercise, and I do not eat as healthily as I should. But these things I know about myself and could change them, I just don't. I sure as hell don't need some smarmy little number to be up my ass about it.

My mother-in-law, being true to form, told me that based on her experience, my thyroid wasn't hyperactive because I obviously hadn't had the rapid loss of weight. I laffed and laffed.

Pushing health as a societal virtue is fine.

Not really. It punishes people who are ill, and I have a problem with shaming, say, cancer patients for their lack of virtue.

Also, people deserve the same amount of respect regardless of whether they're considered "healthy" or "unhealthy." Making "health" into a virtue makes equal respect a damn near impossibility.

insurance odds of what really affects your longevity and quality of life. I'm not sure how they factor weight into their tables, but I'm pretty sure they do.

Yes, insurance companies have no vested interest whatsoever in narrowing down what constitutes healthfulness.

I love you, Nora.

I'd rather trust well-designed unbiased scientific studies regarding the health effects of body weight, versus an actuary (sorry, billytea).

Oh, wait! A girl's on vacation and you're all fast, smoothy talking. Gotta expect this better next time.

P-C and Barb, it was interesting to read that dissection. I have tons of plans, almost no one has full details and info, but I always planned my life. Of course, it never comes out the way I thought it was, but that's part of the fun. Plus, I plan because I'm the scared type. Anyway, that's not what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say is thanks for sharing so we'll have that on b.org. I'm unemployed now, mostly because I'm insisting on not taking jobs that are paying less than minimum wage (which they call here "student wage"), and my parents have my back for the next few months. So it's not like I have family to support, but as someone who has been independent since she was 18 because she insisted on it that's quite a change. But I am worried, a little bit, about not really having goals - I have tons of stuff I want to do and learn, but not one is a goal to itself, just something I'd love to do.
Anyways, what I realy wanted to say and now see I didn't is the buffistas knows best, as always. Don't you ever go wrong?

Barb, no pain~ma.

The logic, it has left the building.

True that, not only about being healthy. The environmental discussion hit my campus in the following form:
Students: can we assign the paper printed on both sides?
Teacher: no.
Students: but think of the environment!
Me: you totally missed the paper recycle bin on your left, have you?
But environment!
Me: people. Your argument should be financial. Not environmental.
Students: but... environment!
Me: headdesk

Also, I totally missed omnis' datemight. Dammit. I wish you two nothing but dirty, sexy things, ASAP. Keep in touch with that one, dear.

Oh, the seder and my CS guest were wonderful. For all I care, Canada rocks, and the dude said I have things to see in Montreal.

Also, I tried to burn an audio CD for the past 2 hours. Computer FAILS.