Tep, everything I read about Mars Hill makes me think of your FAC.

This, by the way, includes the text of their sermons and Driscoll's responses to, oh, everything.

(My first reaction when I heard of them, before I knew their theology, was, naturally, to check them out on their website. And then I ran screaming.)

Connie, I spoiler-fonted out the explicit current season reference in your post.

Tep, everything I read about Mars Hill makes me think of your FAC.

My FAC, naturally, *adores* Mars Hill, which isn't surprising, except for the whole Calvinism thing (because my FAC claims to preach Arminianism).

This, by the way, includes the text of their sermons and Driscoll's responses to, oh, everything.

The article that Hil linked to talked about Driscoll kicking other elders out of the church for disagreeing with him (as well as telling church members to shun them), and I'll tell you what, the elder of the FAC that *my* home group had the most contact with (there were 3 elders when I was there, and each one was affiliated with a different home group) was an asshole in this way. He never kicked anyone out for disagreeing with him, but woe betide to the man, woman, or child who disagreed with him or questioned him.

One time, about 2 weeks before Easter, the FAC hadn't planned an Easter Sunday service (at the time, weekly services were on Thursday evenings, but they would make an exception and always had Easter and Christmas services on a Sunday morning, to encourage members to bring family members).

Anyway, on this particular year, for whatever reason, even though they'd had Easter Sunday services in the past, they weren't doing it that year. One night a group of us were hanging out, including "our" group's elder. And someone asked him if we were going to have Easter Sunday services. He said no, because we celebrate Christ risen every day, blah blah blah, a formal service is a legalistic relic and we don't go in for legalism, blah blah blah.

The questioner (who was NOT me) said, "But my family loves coming to Easter Sunday services with me," and the elder said, "Maybe you should bring them all year long."

Uh, bitch, please.

So the questioner kept putting forth arguments as to why we should have Easter Sunday services, and the elder kept shooting them down. The questioner eventually left because she was so upset. After she left, the elder gave all of us this scathing look and asked, "WHY did NONE of you support me in that discussion?!?"

I was foolish enough to say that I liked having Easter Sunday services, and he said, "You HAVE to support our official decisions; it's not your place to question what we do."

Uh.

He spent a few more minutes lambasting us (not just me) for not backing him up, and then he left.

And all I could think was, why does a big godly church elder need a bunch of 20-somethings to be parrots and stand there and go "Yeah...yeah, he's right, yeah,"? Was he not confident in his decision? Because if he *was,* he shouldn't have needed a bunch of slackers to prop him up.

We weren't however, kicked out of the church for not supporting him. (Nor was the woman who originally asked about Easter services kicked out of the church.)

Although they did (and probably still do) have an unwritten policy of cutting all ties with anyone who leaves the church. The specific quote I remember to this day was "If someone chooses to leave our church, then they are also choosing to give up the benefits of our friendship." One of the home group leaders once told me that, in the 5 years she had been in the church, there was only *one* person who had a "legitimate" reason for leaving the church.

Uh.

Mind you, these weren't people who were leaving *Christianity*; they weren't converting to The Church of The Holy Toenail or something. Most people who left the FAC joined other, non-cult-y Christian churches.

But then, the FAC truly believed that all other Christian churches might *think* they were really Christian, but they probably weren't. Only the FAC was. And Mars Hill, apparently.

Fucking PSYCHOS. (And I'm still ashamed that I [1] got sucked in and [2] stayed so long.)

Connie, I spoiler-fonted out the explicit current season reference in your post.

Huh, I thought that point was included in the ads.

Arminianism

What is that?

Last night, I was asked to describe the differences between different strains of Protestantism by a Jew, a Catholic, and a Christian Orthodox. I was like "...." I could barely describe the basics of the tradition I grew up in.

And seriously, Steph, don't be ashamed. The reason these groups work is because they are so appealing.

yeah java - she usually is more supportive and the one reading more and more books to keep perspective. I think she may just be not having a great time right now and honestly, the reality of his tantrums and reading about theoretical tantrums are just so vastly different. She has never had to deal with the level he brings (which is not that often) not with her two kids or nieces and nephews, not with having taught school for 10 or so years - but it is him right now and isn't gonna just stop all of a sudden.

I thought that point was included in the ads.

Never seen the ads. Thought it safer to err on the side of caution.

Lot less sore than yesterday, but still sore. Hadn't realised it had been hurting that badly. Improved range of motion, so it goes in the win column.

By y'all... off to DC!

Arminianism

What is that?

It's often posited as the "opposite" to Calvinism, in that it doesn't believe that anyone is predestined to heaven or hell (although it *does* teach that God already knows who will accept grace, which sounds kind of like predestination, but the difference there -- IIRC -- is that God doesn't choose people's destinies; they use their free will to accept grace or not, and he just knows about it ahead of time).

Arminianism also teaches that a person can lose their salvation, which seems like bullshit to me.

Here's a Wikipedia link, although I don't know how thorough it is: [link]

Unrelated to religion: there was an ice-coated tree/shrub in our yard, and I took some nifty pictures of it.

t /random self-pimping