I couldn't believe it the first twenty times you told us, but it's starting to sink in now.

Riley ,'Lessons'


Natter 63: Life after PuppyCam  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


brenda m - May 29, 2009 6:08:21 pm PDT #21986 of 30000
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

When they say rewriting, do they mean a fan rewrote it the way they thought it should be? Because I don't see the flattery there. That sounds like, "Nice try, but here is what you should have done."

That is...pretty much what happened if it's the case I'm thinking of.

Not sure if this is the same after all. Here they're demanding that the author do the rewrite: [link]


Amy - May 29, 2009 6:17:11 pm PDT #21987 of 30000
Because books.

You write to satisfy your own standard first and foremost or else you're fucked. You write to please your idea of what a good book should be.

That's true if you know what a good book is. There are a lot of writers out there who don't.

And I think it's an admirable ideal, but not always practical if you want to *sell* your book. You might write a really great romance, let's say, where the hero dies tragically. And it might rock hard. But not many people *who like romance* will want to read it, because it's not what they expect. Which means most editors won't buy it in the first place. There is a reason for expectations, especially in genre fiction.

If you're talking about writing the next Ulysses, on the other hand, well, more power to you!


tommyrot - May 29, 2009 6:20:02 pm PDT #21988 of 30000
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.

Here they're demanding that the author do the rewrite: [link]

Ooh! Can I demand that directors redo movies I didn't like?


DavidS - May 29, 2009 6:53:07 pm PDT #21989 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

There is a reason for expectations, especially in genre fiction.

I could be wrong but it's my impression that romance is especially restrictive in this sense. Science fiction, mystery, horror or thrillers have more latitude in plot outcome than Romance. I think you can hit all the beats in those other genres and have a variety of outcomes, but Romance has to end happily so the narrative suspense is somewhat muted.

But...I've never really read a Romance (unless Precious Bane counts) so I'm just going on general impressions and speculation.


erikaj - May 29, 2009 6:59:55 pm PDT #21990 of 30000
Always Anti-fascist!

From the outside, it does seem like a lot of rules. Some people object if they bump uglies too early, for instance.


Amy - May 29, 2009 6:59:57 pm PDT #21991 of 30000
Because books.

Science fiction, mystery, horror or thrillers have more latitude in plot outcome than Romance. I think you can hit all the beats in those other genres and have a variety of outcomes

But expectations don't cover *only* the outcome. Other genres do allow for more than one kind of ending, but each genre demands certain elements ... or a book doesn't fall within the genre anymore.


billytea - May 29, 2009 7:06:10 pm PDT #21992 of 30000
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

From the outside, it does seem like a lot of rules. Some people object if they bump uglies too early, for instance.

Some people get upset if they call it "bumping uglies" too.


Trudy Booth - May 29, 2009 7:09:56 pm PDT #21993 of 30000
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

I think "bumping uglies" is my very favorite euphemism for sex.


erikaj - May 29, 2009 7:10:07 pm PDT #21994 of 30000
Always Anti-fascist!

I actually did read a parody romance written to flaunt the "rules" once, although, you're right, they still didn't call it *that*, no.


DavidS - May 29, 2009 7:14:34 pm PDT #21995 of 30000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

But expectations don't cover *only* the outcome. Other genres do allow for more than one kind of ending, but each genre demands certain elements ... or a book doesn't fall within the genre anymore.

That's true. But the genre elements are less plot defining except in perhaps Mysteries which - like Romance - needs a money shot satisfying ending. Science Fiction can go just about anywhere storywise, it just needs elements addressing how advances in technology can affect the story. Similarly a Western is defined by it's setting and era and to a lesser extent it's themes, but within that can tell any story it wants.