That he said publically, as a matter of policy, that a woman's reproductive decisions should be between her and her pastor was a huge flashing sign for me, on two of those questions. And he was not outspoken in support of non-traditional marriage. That may have been politic on his part, but I'd like to have heard something that indicated he doesn't plan to toe the line on banning and/or reversing gay marriage.

I understand that some things are downplayed or glossed over during campaigns. I just hope it's his support of women's and GLBT rights, and not his opposition to them, that got downplayed.

Wow, I miss a lot when I'm away for a couple of days.

ImemeN, I am in Iowa! I am eternally grateful for my cool brother and sister, because by the time they got down to Kansas City Friday night, I was in full insane-mode, But, they miraculously fitted everything into his van and my car, while I sat on the floor dithering over the chaos my "organizing" had deteriorated into.

All went well on the drive up, until we got to I-80 between Des Moines and Iowa City. We were driving about 40 mph because we kept passing accidents. Some were from the previous night, but there were several fresh ones with emergency vehichles clustered around. There was one stretch of about a mile that we passed 15 cars and trucks in the ditches!

But, we survived and I am exhausted, but I have a job interview today, so I must dig through the boxes to find my portfolio and some presentable clothes!

Some Buffista job-ma~ would be appreciated!

I forgot to add that I am really excited about the inauguration tomorrow! And if anyone has a link to that concert last night I would appreciate it!

I saw Bono's face briefly on MSNBC before going to bed and he turned up in a dream. Sadly, though I am a real fan of his and the band, in my dream he was kind of a dick. However, Kieth Olberman was very nice...in the dream.

That he said publically, as a matter of policy, that a woman's reproductive decisions should be between her and her pastor was a huge flashing sign for me

What do you mean when you say "as a matter of policy"? Is he planning to introduce legislation that makes abortion rights contingent on a woman talking to her pastor before getting an abortion?

Because I didn't hear him say anything about policy. That statement, in one of the debates, made me wince, but I think he said it because he knows that a majority of the country claims to follow some sort of faith (which ties into the conversation in Bitches), and he wanted to put the lie to the anti-choice image of millions of women geting abortions and not giving a damn about what they were doing. I think he was trying to create an image that it's something that's a serious decision, but has to be a legal option.

But taken as a sign that he's weak on women's rights, or a sign that he wants to further blur the line between church and state? I don't see it. Not at all.

It's totally sunny and warm here now. 10 C. It's supposed to freeze again after sunset, so I don't know how hard it will be to get around tonight.

I think I agree with Tep. I think he wants to say that women put a lot of thought in to getting abortions, and his conversion experience was so profound, he'd be confused with all of us squirming about the pastor thing. But he wasn't speaking to us, more to my Midwestern church-going grandma. Although she's R, so I'm not sure it would work.

What do you mean when you say "as a matter of policy"?

That he said it in response to a question about his potential position as head of state indicated *to me* that it was policy.

Is he planning to introduce legislation that makes abortion rights contingent on a woman talking to her pastor before getting an abortion?

I certainly hope not. I doubt it. I don't have as much doubt that he would support, or refrain from opposing, such if someone else introduced it. And this is the heart of my doubt of him on this issue.

It is entirely possible that he downplayed his support of women's and GLBT rights in order to appeal to a larger, more centrist segment of the voting public, and I deeply, fervently hope that's the case. I'm not certain of it. The Bush administration has cured me of assuming the best of people and made me suspicious of those who do not state their full agenda up front. I will never be that gullible again.

I think he wants to say that women put a lot of thought in to getting abortions,

That, and also that it's not just the baby-hating feminist atheist commie FREAKS who get abortions. If the conversation is between a woman and her pastor, that means she has a pastor, and is that much more just like you.

(Personally, I think the assumption in that statement of the legality of abortion speaks very strongly to a pro-reprodutive rights stance as well as a strong separation or church and state. The hypothetical woman in question is talking to her pastor because her legal rights are not in question, therefore this is a purely personal matter.)

Yes, this. A lot of times, even I'm surprised at the women I know who've had one...pretty pernicious meme, in that case.

What do you mean when you say "as a matter of policy"?

That he said it in response to a question about his potential position as head of state indicated *to me* that it was policy.

Again, I don't remember the verbatim question -- was it regarding what Obama would do in his capacity as president, regarding abortion rights? Or was he just asked if he supports abortion rights?

I think there's a difference there. If Obama said that as president he would support legislation that required that every woman seeking an abortion must join a church and consult with her pastor before being able to obtain the abortion -- well, that's one thing.

But I don't think he was answering as a matter of policy, of what he would pursue/support as POTUS. I think he was being a politician who knows that abortion is a deeply, DEEPLY divisive issue.

Obama's record on women's rights is very, very strong. And none of that included a requirement to go get a pastor. I seriously think that one statement in one debate shouldn't be taken as indicative of what his administration is going to be like.

Is he planning to introduce legislation that makes abortion rights contingent on a woman talking to her pastor before getting an abortion?

I certainly hope not. I doubt it. I don't have as much doubt that he would support, or refrain from opposing, such if someone else introduced it.

Seriously? We clearly watched 2 different candidates, then.