Happy birthday, tommyrot!

Corwood, how awful. I'm sorry.

Gud, someone (Plei?) pointed out elsewhere that "gifted" often means "doesn't learn quite like others" and the skills required to be successful in honors/AP are very normative - no quirky learners. The definition of "gifted" seems to vary a lot, but it doesn't necessarily coincide with smart or intelligent. Edit: badly phrased - you can be hella smart but not gifted, and you can be gifted, but not succeed in AP Chemistry, is what I am trying to say.

Yeah, that was me. Given how spotty my work was in a gifted class, I am scared to think what it might have been in a normal one.

This was my kitchen this morning: [link]

Our school generally chose the valedictorian strictly on GPA.

What else would you choose it on?

We didn't have a valedictorian in HS. We also didn't have GPAs; we used number grades that varied widely from subject to subject. I remember that it was next to impossible to get above 90 in English, or many other subjective subjects.

Thanks again for all the b-day wishes. Now I get to go home....

I missed out on the off-site gifted & talented program in 4th grade due to boredom and being a slacker, but in 5th grade I moved to a different elementary school and G&T was a way to hang out with my friends from the previous school for two half days a week. Voilà, instant motivation to perform, and academic excellence from that point onward!

My one scarring experience was the drill sergeant algebra teacher in 8th grade who would slam his pointer down on kids' desks to frighten them into silence. He broke one student's finger doing that and the principal took his pointer away, but otherwise didn't change his intimdation-based teaching approach at all (he replaced the pointer with a yardstick).

Grade school into early highschool I kept starting at the normal math level, and then a month in they'd decide I wasn't being challenged enough (or something) and they'd shift me into the next level, and say "Catch up!". Double whammy of "You're not as dumb as we previously thought" and "learn in a day what everyone else leisurely absorbed in thirty". All the way up to senior year, everyone in my math classes hated me. Fun times.

he he ... you kids. When I graduated, I didn't have a chance at being valedictorian for two reasons. #1 it went to the BOY with the highest grade point average and #2 the HS averaged in gym grades.

Heh. My mother should have been dux of her school, but the nuns who ran it had a policy of only giving out one prize to any student, and of course she'd rather have the Religion prize, wouldn't she?

There's also a difference between gifted programs and tracking. Gifted programs are (or at least should be) for the kids who generally have trouble learning in the regular classroom setting. At the gifted program where I worked for a few summers, we had several sessions on the learning differences between gifted kids and average kids -- it's not just that they learn more quickly or know more, but there are very real differences in how they take in information, so that while some gifted kids do fine in a regular classroom, a lot really struggle.

This is (or at least should be) a totally different thing than just taking the kids within the more-or-less "average" spectrum and splitting them up by ability. I really haven't read enough to really have an opinion on that. But just like it wouldn't really be fair to, say, a kid with dyslexia to just put the kid in the lowest reading group without any special instruction to deal with the dyslexia, it also isn't fair to put a gifted kid in the highest reading group without special instruction to deal with the giftedness.

(One of the big characteristics of gifted kids is atypical learning progress. Most kids tend to learn at more or less a steady pace, and will be at reasonably the same level in all subjects at any given time -- gifted kids tend to learn huge amounts at once, then nothing for a while, and will also frequently have huge differences between scores in different subjects, once you give them a test that's at their level, but which score is the really high one and which is the really low one can change all the time.)

One of the odd things at my high school was that the kids in the G&T program and the kids in the Honors and AP classes didn't have a lot of overlap.

I remember senior year of high school, the yearbook picture for National Honor Society was during AP English. When all the National Honor Society kids went to the picture, the three kids left in the classroom where the three kids who had been in the gifted program in elementary school.

Yeah, I bet I would have been put in a G&T program, but I think it would have been stupid. I did really well in regular school -- both because I'm smart and because the format played to my strengths.