Up until the punching, it was a real nice party.

Kaylee ,'Shindig'


Buffista Music 4: Needs More Cowbell!

There's a lady plays her fav'rite records/On the jukebox ev'ry day/All day long she plays the same old songs/And she believes the things that they say/She sings along with all the saddest songs/And she believes the stories are real/She lets the music dictate the way that she feels.


sj - Mar 19, 2011 7:25:13 pm PDT #4249 of 6436
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

Having not heard the music on the Evelyn Evelyn CD, it's hard for me to judge, but mostly I don't have a problem with someone taking on a persona of someone with a disability to tell a story they want to tell. After all, most of the major characters I can think of that have disabilities on TV are not played by disabled actors.


DavidS - Mar 19, 2011 7:36:22 pm PDT #4250 of 6436
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I mostly get annoyed with classic literature's often use of disability to equal either evil or sainthood, with nothing in between those two options.

I mostly see it used as an expression of alienation. People feel freaky, or out of place in their culture and reach for a freak show example to express their emotional state. Similarly Bowie uses a literal alien for his sense of alienation, or space travel to evoke his emotional distance.

Also, one would hope that we've evolved in our attitude towards disability since Shakespeare's time.

I don't know if I really trust that idea of moral evolution. Every age is a prisoner of its own preconceptions. We're not the apex of human development. Though sticking narrowly to your point, yes, we do view disability differently than it was seen in Renaissance England.


sj - Mar 19, 2011 7:40:08 pm PDT #4251 of 6436
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

I mostly see it used as an expression of alienation. People feel freaky, or out of place in their culture and reach for a freak show example to express their emotional state. Similarly Bowie uses a literal alien for his sense of alienation, or space travel to evoke his emotional distance.

Whatever the purpose of it, it feeds stereotypes and still affects the way disabled people are treated today.


DavidS - Mar 19, 2011 7:58:38 pm PDT #4252 of 6436
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Whatever the purpose of it, it feeds stereotypes and still affects the way disabled people are treated today.

Again it comes down to somebody else speaking for your experience. Using a disability as a metaphor to narrowly express some part of an ableist experience.

It's odd that as I consider the issues I realize the import of the word "exploitation." Because I'm very familiar with many subgenres of film which are so explicitly exploitative that they're called "exploitation films."

Which goes back to my earlier comment about each era being somewhat blindered by its own presumptions. To cite an example, you know more about the state of racial tension in the late sixties / early seventies by watching a classic blaxploitation movie like Superfly or Coffy than you will by watching a very middlebrow movie like Guess Who's Coming To Dinner.


sj - Mar 19, 2011 8:08:06 pm PDT #4253 of 6436
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

Again it comes down to somebody else speaking for your experience. Using a disability as a metaphor to narrowly express some part of an ableist experience.

Which I have already said I am fine with people using disability as a metaphor, but if in doing that they also exploit negative stereotypes, it annoys me.


DavidS - Mar 19, 2011 8:52:42 pm PDT #4254 of 6436
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

but if in doing that they also exploit negative stereotypes, it annoys me.

But you also said you disliked positive stereotypes, with the disabled treated as saints. Every stereotype is reductive, limiting. And, by that standard, false.


sj - Mar 19, 2011 8:57:35 pm PDT #4255 of 6436
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

But you also said you disliked positive stereotypes, with the disabled treated as saints.

Actually, I view this as a negative stereotype as well. Human beings are all one thing or another, and neither are disabled people. If a disabled character is treated as a human with both good and bad qualities, I'm fine with it. But all one thing or another are both bad imho.


DavidS - Mar 19, 2011 8:57:47 pm PDT #4256 of 6436
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

FWIW, sj, I'm not trying to pin you down or prove an argument. I just think the ethical standards for any creator are somewhat slippery. People have to draw directly on their limited, intense personal experience and somehow manifest it - make it physical, apprehensible. Every writer exploits his personal experience to create in ways which are often inimical to the ethics of intimacy (i.e., to express your truth you impinge on others privacy).

That may seem far from disability issues but I think it's at the core of the creative process. You do things creatively that you would never do in your life.


DavidS - Mar 19, 2011 9:03:17 pm PDT #4257 of 6436
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

If a disabled character is treated as a human with both good and bad qualities, I'm fine with it. But all one thing or another are both bad imho.

This goes back to the classic (and I think still illuminating) feminist quote: "Feminism is the radical proposition that women are human beings."

But using a disabled character as a metaphor tends to diminish that complexity.


sj - Mar 19, 2011 9:08:05 pm PDT #4258 of 6436
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

But using a disabled character as a metaphor tends to diminish that complexity.

I don't think it necessarily has to, and, honestly, anyone that is still creating characters of any kind that are all one thing or all another, are not being very creative, imho. I may not be making as much sense as I want to at 2 AM.