Love isn't brains, children, it's blood, blood screaming inside you to work its will.

Spike ,'Sleeper'


Natter 59: Dominate Your Face!  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Toddson - Jul 28, 2008 6:53:09 am PDT #9861 of 10003
Friends don't let friends read "Atlas Shrugged"

I grew up pretty solidly middle class, although my father grew up poor and my mother came from a fairly genteel once-wealthy family. I hit college and ran into some really rich kids, many of whom could be unconsciously obnoxious about finances (i.e., YOU might be able to afford a special charge for something, but for the kids on scholarship who have to work at campus jobs, that's two weeks' pay). I've held jobs since I was 16, except for the summer after I turned 19 and was recovering from a dislocated kneecap.

Allyson, may I join the group in advising you to start looking for another job. It sounds like your boss has decided that you're not competent enough for the job, based on very little evidence. In situations like that (and I've been in them), it's just about impossible to change someone's mind. It's sad, given your history together, but do you need the emotional pain it's causing you?


Nilly - Jul 28, 2008 6:56:45 am PDT #9862 of 10003
Swouncing

And then the Yiddish-speaking immigrants from Eastern Europe, who mostly came over escaping pogroms

These were the first big waves of immigration to Israel (around the last 25 years or so of the 19th century), and they indeed came here due to those difficult conditions in their home lands. Basically, immigrating here or to the USA was, in a way, a flip of a coin.

Do you know the stories of Shalom Aleichem? His last book (he actually didn't complete it) was about immigrants like you described, from the little Eastern-European village to the land-of-all-dreams America.

My mom's family spoke Yiddish. My dad's family spoke German. When they got married, there were several comments from both sides of the family along the lines of, "Well, at least s/he's Jewish."

The grandmother of a very dear friend, whose family immigrated from Poland, doesn't speak to me (as in, outright ignoring me, for example, in the brit of my friend's son), because I'm Sepharadi, and, apparently, dragging down her family by befriending her grand-daughter.


Hil R. - Jul 28, 2008 6:56:55 am PDT #9863 of 10003
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I worked a few summers in high school, but that was mostly because my mom figured that we had to do SOMETHING during the summer, so if I wasn't at camp or some summer program, then I needed to find a job.


Hil R. - Jul 28, 2008 7:02:55 am PDT #9864 of 10003
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Basically, immigrating here or to the USA was, in a way, a flip of a coin.

I have a few distant cousins in Israel. That branch of the family started in Poland, then some moved to Israel, some to the US, and my grandfather's family went to Vienna, and then my grandfather came to the US.

My grandfather's family in Vienna was solidly upper-middle class. He was studying to be a lawyer. In Austria at the time, becoming a lawyer required passing a series of six exams. He passed five of them before the Nazis said that Jews couldn't go to the universities anymore. When he came to the US, he couldn't apply any of that training, since the US laws were so different from the Austrian laws, and he didn't have the time or money to go through law school again. He ended up going through a series of sales and manufacturing jobs -- for a while he worked sewing handbags, and for a while he sold cameras, and a whole bunch of other jobs like that. In the late seventies, he wrote to the Austrian government to see if they'd grant him his law degree, just because he wanted the piece of paper acknowledging his work. They told him that he had to pass that last exam first.


Jesse - Jul 28, 2008 7:04:38 am PDT #9865 of 10003
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

The grandmother of a very dear friend, whose family immigrated from Poland, doesn't speak to me (as in, outright ignoring me, for example, in the brit of my friend's son), because I'm Sepharadi, and, apparently, dragging down her family by befriending her grand-daughter.

Yikes! I assume your friend married a sufficiently upscale person.


§ ita § - Jul 28, 2008 7:10:28 am PDT #9866 of 10003
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I find it hard to pin down what class I used to be. I guess I get to define myself now, and even then...

My parents grew up poor, but my father went on to often be the most theoretically highly-ranked man in the room (an ambassadorial perk, to rank you with heads of state). My mother's pissed she achieved nothing more than tenure.

I make more than either of them ever did--perhaps more than both added together by the time my working days are done. But unless I marry into it, I can't see myself exceeding them in class.


Nilly - Jul 28, 2008 7:12:18 am PDT #9867 of 10003
Swouncing

They told him that he had to pass that last exam first.

Ouch. How "Yekke" of them (do you also use that expression?).

I assume your friend married a sufficiently upscale person.

It just happened that his grandparents immigrated from Hungary. My friend couldn't care less. Her grandmother - well, that's her issues, and her loss.


Hil R. - Jul 28, 2008 7:16:01 am PDT #9868 of 10003
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Ouch. How "Yekke" of them (do you also use that expression?).

Yep. Well, my grandmother would have killed me for using that word, and my father will kind of give me a Look if I use it, but I have used it on occaision.


Jesse - Jul 28, 2008 7:17:07 am PDT #9869 of 10003
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Her grandmother - well, that's her issues, and her loss.

Absolutely. I feel lucky that my grandparents are/were all pretty liberal and accepting of differences. Either side could have been the type to cling tightly to the notion of "people like us," coming from opposite ends of the class spectrum -- on the one side, they were poor and white in Texas, and on the other side, they were well-to-do (at least) and definitely upper class (fancy doctors and lawyers) in New England.


bon bon - Jul 28, 2008 7:18:43 am PDT #9870 of 10003
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.

Hey friends, grammar help needed. "Neither the terms of Section 741(8) nor the Court’s prior Opinions limits [the interpretation of x to y]"

Limit or limits?