Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots. Shut up!

Mal ,'War Stories'


Natter 59: Dominate Your Face!  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Susan W. - Jun 26, 2008 7:41:00 am PDT #4995 of 10003
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

Actually, there's also a factual basis for this. Mixed-race Indian men had very strong incentives to marry "down" the racial hierarchy -- that is, to marry a darker-complected mixed-race woman, or a black or Indian woman. Whereas mixed-race women could be "saved" or "civilized" by marriage up the hierarchy.

And then there's the practical consideration that in areas that were from a European perspective "frontier," you were going to have more white men than white women, so it's not surprising that a lot of those surplus white men married or at least slept with Indian women.

where a person gets to claim all the privileges of whiteness, while also claiming the drama, excitingness, and "authenticity" of an oppressed minority.

This is something I actually wrestle with a bit, since DH and Annabel are legally Cherokee but are mostly white. DH checks both white and Native American on census forms and such, and when we buy a house next year (if the good Lord's willing and the creek don't rise) we're going to go through a program for first-time N.A. home buyers. But I only feel right about taking advantage of their legal and technical Indian status as long as it's not taking anything away from anyone else--e.g. if that loan program were only available to a set number of people per year instead of to anyone who qualifies, I wouldn't want to use it.


Lee - Jun 26, 2008 7:45:53 am PDT #4996 of 10003
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

Is anyone else being denied gmail access right now?


juliana - Jun 26, 2008 7:46:03 am PDT #4997 of 10003
I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I miss them all tonight…

Pico~ma, Sue.

I've never been sure what's responsibile for the appearance that there's one native American accent, and that it spreads into Canada too.

The same forces at work that make us think there's only two English accents - BBC and Cockney?

I think the native American accent of which you speak (and indigenous Canadian too) is more likely to be a cadence.

What's the difference between an accent and a cadence? Because there is a clear difference between Inuit and Athabascan accent/cadence - I have to place my tongue in different places to imitate them.

(Disclaimer: I'm a white girl, but it seems that not all my ancestors were. Those that weren't were, in fact, female. No princesses, however. Everyone was dirt poor and rural.)

This is my family story, as well.


Sue - Jun 26, 2008 7:48:28 am PDT #4998 of 10003
hip deep in pie

My mother only in the last few years admitted that her maternal grandfather was Mi'kmaq. But Nfld. Mi'kmaq never had status, except for one small band, and there was a lot of internarrying between the French and Irish and natives in Nfld. so I would be surprised if that's the only native relation I have.


DavidS - Jun 26, 2008 7:49:00 am PDT #4999 of 10003
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

(Disclaimer: I'm a white girl, but it seems that not all my ancestors were. Those that weren't were, in fact, female. No princesses, however. Everyone was dirt poor and rural.)

Ditto for me, except white boy. But I have actually seen the photograph of my grandfather's native american grandmother. Really! And yeah, dirt poor and rural.

Oh Sue, I'm sorry. ease-ma for Pico.


§ ita § - Jun 26, 2008 7:54:48 am PDT #5000 of 10003
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Mixed-race Indian men had very strong incentives to marry "down" the racial hierarchy

Very strong incentive is a very strong euphemism. How about "on pointed pain of death" for a less strong one?


§ ita § - Jun 26, 2008 7:57:46 am PDT #5001 of 10003
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

The same forces at work that make us think there's only two English accents - BBC and Cockney?

Yeah, but Native Americans are here. Are you saying the accents are driven by the direction and aren't the accents of the people playing the roles?


P.M. Marc - Jun 26, 2008 8:02:53 am PDT #5002 of 10003
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

My mother only in the last few years admitted that her maternal grandfather was Mi'kmaq. But Nfld. Mi'kmaq never had status, except for one small band, and there was a lot of internarrying between the French and Irish and natives in Nfld. so I would be surprised if that's the only native relation I have.

We could be related! There was apparently a reasonable amount between the Scottish in the PEI/NS area, as well, so my grandfather had a fair percentage of Mi'kmaq.

Really, when this was mentioned by a reliable source, it explained A LOT about some weird family dynamics with my Dad's sister (darkest hair, eyes, and skin of the three kids, often assumed to be of mixed blood) and (blonde hair, blue-eyed, raised by her married very much down the class ladder English mother) Gram. And possibly why Gram made no effort to remain in contact with my grandfather's family.


juliana - Jun 26, 2008 8:11:20 am PDT #5003 of 10003
I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I miss them all tonight…

Are you saying the accents are driven by the direction and aren't the accents of the people playing the roles?

I'm saying that First Nation/Native Americans have a) not been well-represented in media, and that b) the mythos of FN/NA peoples has overridden the reality since long before the inception of the Republic. (For example - in Northern Exposure, all the Alaska Native characters were played by actors from Washington and Idaho tribes. This bugged the hell out of me, since there is a clear physical and vocal difference, but I know it wasn't noticed by most people.)

I don't know that I'm saying this right. It's just - I think the overarching issue is that it's easy for society to be reductive. It's like how's there's actors using an Oklahoma accent when they're supposed to be in Texas. The subtleties get lost.


Sue - Jun 26, 2008 8:12:00 am PDT #5004 of 10003
hip deep in pie

We could be related! There was apparently a reasonable amount between the Scottish in the PEI/NS area, as well, so my grandfather had a fair percentage of Mi'kmaq.

It's entirely possible. I guess the Mi'kmaq who were in Nfld migrated between NS and NFLD as they fished. It's really hard to get a clear family history because my grandmother had a fairly painful past and didn't really want to talk about it. (Her first husband and one or two kids died by the time she was 22, and her father died in an asylum.)