Two by two, hands of blue. Two by two, hands of blue.

River ,'Ariel'


Spike's Bitches 41: Thrown together to stand against the forces of darkness  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Toddson - Jul 29, 2008 10:59:40 am PDT #9144 of 10001
Friends don't let friends read "Atlas Shrugged"

And in Italy, wasn't opera for everyone?


Nora Deirdre - Jul 29, 2008 10:59:46 am PDT #9145 of 10001
I’m responsible for my own happiness? I can’t even be responsible for my own breakfast! (Bojack Horseman)

Caryl Churchill I think would be pretty difficult to teach in a lit class setting (IIRC). I think that's more drama class stuff.

Though who knows, if playwrights like Churchill were discussed in mainstream classroom applications, then it would probably be much more accessible.

Perhaps my bias shows toward incorporating performance as the best way to analyze drama text, YMMV.


NoiseDesign - Jul 29, 2008 11:00:57 am PDT #9146 of 10001
Our wings are not tired

Yeah, my issues with what is taught continue into university.


Nora Deirdre - Jul 29, 2008 11:02:07 am PDT #9147 of 10001
I’m responsible for my own happiness? I can’t even be responsible for my own breakfast! (Bojack Horseman)

Brecht is another one that's tough to analyze in a purely academic way.


Strix - Jul 29, 2008 11:07:29 am PDT #9148 of 10001
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

It is, frankly, hard enough to teach the majority of students in your basic public high school setting the basics -- I'm not even arguing Sh. as a basic here, I'm talking sentence structure, 5 paragraph essay, letterwriting, the basics of plot, compare and contrast, elements of persuasion -- that arguments about whether Shakespeare should be supplanted or deeply supplemented with other playwrights or authors is, sadly, fairly moot.

I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about it, cause we should. IJS, that in my teaching experience, it is pretty theoretical for the majority of English teachers.


Strix - Jul 29, 2008 11:09:15 am PDT #9149 of 10001
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

Huh. "Elements of Persuasion" would make a good Regency romance title. Someone should use it.


Sophia Brooks - Jul 29, 2008 11:09:49 am PDT #9150 of 10001
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

I was a theatre and an English Lit major, in college, and I did read a lot of plays for the English major as well, but it may be because I gravitated to classes that taught plays. In lower schools we read The Diary of Anne Frank, 3 Shakespeares, Our Town, and The Crucible, which was a pretty good selection, frankly. I would say that more modern and "harder" plays and authors got neglected equally in my school. Of course, I read a metric shit-ton of plays all on my own-- I was particularly fond of Shaw, Ibsen, Strindberg and, weirdly, JM Barrie.

ETA- I can't imagine most of my fellow students in high school going beyond thatany more than I would be able to go beyond precalc- It would be great if high school could actually succeed in teaching the foundations.

I did like it, even though we weren't reading the books at the time, when we discussed authors of different periods in social studies, because it is all connected-- why certain books an certain plays and certain art was created at certain times, and they seem so hard to separate.


Calli - Jul 29, 2008 11:13:03 am PDT #9151 of 10001
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

I loved Shaw. And reading some of the plays that haven't survived the years can be pretty interesting, too. Yeats did a bunch of plays for the Irish Theater that are influenced by a combination of Noh theater and Irish mythology. (Plus contemporary politics, of course.)


Strix - Jul 29, 2008 11:15:40 am PDT #9152 of 10001
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

In the class I would be teaching (if I get the job) it'll be all stuff outta a Glecoe text plus Elie Weisel's Night, which is fine, and Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, which kinda bores the fuck out of me. At least it's not The Pearl

I should go look up the Glencoe sophomore text, just to see. We had that text, but I never taught out of texts -- I would just copy the occsional story or poem out of them.


Fred Pete - Jul 29, 2008 11:16:30 am PDT #9153 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.

I'm talking sentence structure, 5 paragraph essay, letterwriting, the basics of plot, compare and contrast, elements of persuasion

I'd call some of these elements grade school work. But I see your point -- if high school English teachers are teaching basic writing skills, there isn't much room for mulitple plays.

On the other hand, English teachers, how much does the Elizabethan language interfere with teachability? Would a more contemporary play -- I'll just pick The Glass Menagerie to have a name out there, or a number have mentioned The Crucible -- go more quickly?