Dawn: I think a date should be in a real fancy restaurant, then champagne at a night club with a floor show, then ballroom dancing. Joyce: Unfortunately, we're not dating in a movie from the thirties.

'Get It Done'


Spike's Bitches 41: Thrown together to stand against the forces of darkness  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Vortex - Jul 29, 2008 10:33:45 am PDT #9126 of 10001
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

I was a theatre major, so of course, I read a shitload of plays. I forget that most people don't get that exposure.


Calli - Jul 29, 2008 10:41:13 am PDT #9127 of 10001
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

I was an English lit major, but I realized very soon that, O'Neil aside, the length of most plays was circumscribed by the tolerance of most playgoers butts. So I usually selected period plays over period novels when given the option. Restoration drama was lots of fun.


NoiseDesign - Jul 29, 2008 10:41:31 am PDT #9128 of 10001
Our wings are not tired

There are other classics like Moliere and Lorca that get left out, but there's also contemporary plays that get left out. Modern writers like Durang, or showing how Sondheim help reshape musical theatre and his use of tough social commentary.

Don't get me wrong, I love Shakespeare, but I think he's put up on too much of an altar to the detriment of other dramatic works and it's impact on society.


Strix - Jul 29, 2008 10:43:10 am PDT #9129 of 10001
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

And I think one of the reasons that Sh. is taught so much in high school --aside from the overweening opinion that he is "art" and therefore infallible -- is that there are so many allusions and words in Western culture that spring directly or indirectly from Sh., and that a hs education is, necessarily, directed at providing an extremely broad foundation to all graduates.

Edited for repition. I rubriced myself. I need to get back in a classroom.


Strix - Jul 29, 2008 10:46:27 am PDT #9130 of 10001
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

Note bene: I do NOT think Sh. is infallible. And he certainly was not altarized as "high art" (god, let's not start a discussion on high vs. low art, puh-leeze, cause I don't care all that much) in his lifetime.


Pix - Jul 29, 2008 10:48:00 am PDT #9131 of 10001
We're all getting played with, babe. -Weird Barbie

ND and I have had this argument before. I completely understand where he's coming from, but from a regular English lit perspective, no other playwright is as entrenched in the British and American lit and popular culture that followed Shakespeare. Students need to know at least the basics of the major plays in order to catch these allusions. I'm sure I'm missing other things because I don't have as thorough a background in Moliere and Lorca and so forth, but the difference is that my professors in college didn't expect me to know them, whereas they did expect me to know my Shakespeare. So while I agree that he may be overemphasized, it is a reality that my high school students are better served by at least getting the major tragedies before they go off to college. I am constantly wishing there was more time to teach more lit.

ETA: Or what Erin said (we x-posted):

And I think one of the reasons that Sh. is taught so much in high school --aside from the overweening opinion that he is "art" and therefore infallible -- is that there are so many allusions and words in Western culture that spring directly or indirectly from Sh., and that a hs education is, necessarily, directed at providing an extremely broad foundation to all graduates.


NoiseDesign - Jul 29, 2008 10:48:35 am PDT #9132 of 10001
Our wings are not tired

In many ways he was pop culture for his time. In context, being a groundling at a theatre was cheap entertainment. Most people couldn't read, and TV didn't exist, so it was church or theatre.


Scrappy - Jul 29, 2008 10:49:11 am PDT #9133 of 10001
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

Plus, Shakes is so damn GOOD.


Strix - Jul 29, 2008 10:51:52 am PDT #9134 of 10001
A dress should be tight enough to show you're a woman but loose enough to flee from zombies. — Ginger

I am constantly wishing there was more time to teach more lit.

This. And learn more lit...I MISS lit classes! I read a metric fuckload by myself, and sure, I can discuss it on the internet, but frankly, sometimes writing about it gets tedious. I like talking better.

When you get into a class, you are in a mindset to go to the class and discuss something with (ostensibly) someone who has studied the works in questions. You may not always agree with them, but almost always they provide some information and perspectives you otherwise wouldn't have had.


Toddson - Jul 29, 2008 10:52:33 am PDT #9135 of 10001
Friends don't let friends read "Atlas Shrugged"

so ... Shakespeare was the basic cable of his time?