It sounds like 4E is geared towards action gamers more than role players. The last time I played D&D it was a World of Greyhawk thing where all the effort seemed geared towards the combats. Every time I tried to roleplay something, the DM said, "Oh, that part is assumed, we need to move on to the encounter, we have a time limit." I didn't go back for a second session. Darn it, I like dickering with an innkeeper about the price of dinner and whether I get a bed to myself.

Cthulhu Now, but we once spent an entire session where our characters sat in a Denny's.

Combat has always played a major part in D&D. However, the level of roleplaying is entirely dependent on the group & the DM. The new skill challenges can make social encounters a dynamic event involving many of the group.

The skill challenge was totally cool. At first I thought it sounded kind of dry ("you have to get 4 successes before you get 2 failures") but the ability to have various characters use various skills that all applied was excellent. And fun!

You know, really 4e reminds me of first edition.

However, the level of roleplaying is entirely dependent on the group & the DM.

I was wondering about that -- I like an RPG where the RP involves more than just hacky-smashy as much as anyone, but disallowing haggling with the innkeeper sounds like a DM issue more than the ruleset. Unless I'm missing something.

You know, really 4e reminds me of first edition.

Huh. And also, huh. Expand?

disallowing haggling with the innkeeper sounds like a DM issue more than the ruleset

There's an interesting dynamic between the DM and the ruleset. Some DMs are comfortable doing stuff that's not written in the rules or the adventure, others hew closely. Pretty much every review of 4e that I've seen on the webnets seems to be written by DMs or players who feel that the DM is just a human computer, knowing the rules and rolling for the NPCs.

The plus side to that is that it's hard to accuse the DM of cheating or fudging the dice or giving preferential treatment to his girlfriend.

I, of course, feel that a human DM brings creativity to the table. He or she makes judgment calls, adapts the adventure on the fly or between sessions to make it more fun for the players, and breathes life into the NPCs. Because I'm like that, I've never understood the players who think their job is to beat the DM. Dude, I'm the DM. Rocks fall from the sky and crush you all.

This requires that the players trust the DM's integrity.

D&D 4e does allow for that kind of latitude in DMing. I don't think it's a ruleset that's super-well suited to it tho; I think it works a lot better as tactical combat game. If you have a continuum with "gamist" on one side (the people who want computer-like accuracy) and "narrativist" on the other (LARPers and people who like diceless games), I'm a bit to the narrative side of middle...and I think 4e is middle gamist.

Ah, the sprog isn't going to let me finish. Quick expansion of the first edition comment: You kind of needed an elf, a fighter, a thief, and a magic-user in 1e. Party build. Each class had unique rules which map to Powers. The game was still close to its Chainmail roots, and played like a tabletop minis game - loads of combat, not much story.

So it does bring the nostalgia factor.

The GSL has been released. Haven't had a chance to look at it indepth yet...

Ok, GTA4 fans, you have to help me. I cannot for the fucking LIFE of me fly the damned helicopter in the Paper Trail missing. I keep losing the target--not that I ever could see the other helicopter in the first place. Clearly I do not get the controls. Please help me. I'm ready to break the game in half. I've been stuck here for a day.

Kristin, on the PS3, using the left and right triggers controls the rudder on the helicopter - that gives you a lot sharper turning control than using the analog sticks to bank left and right. I'm not sure if it's exactly the same on the 360, but it should be similar. As for finding the other heli, use your camera controls to spot it and then get as close to it as you can quickly, and then it gets easier to follow.

Finally! Thanks, amych.