You surprised me, lady! I wasn't expecting that at all, and you handled it very well!

Hee!! Yay!

Yeah, I'll admit it-- I'm also a shameless whore for the egostrokes. (And the letters I got from people who'd gone through similar who told me I got it right. Makes it so worth it.)

I don't think it matters why any of us write. We do, is the thing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be published if we do, because like I've said a million times, getting paid to write is waaaaaay better than getting paid to ring up groceries, at least for me. That said, I've been on both sides of the desk, and I want to reiterate that it's really fucking dangerous for anyone to think that publication is a Golden Ticket. It so, so isn't, at least not when it comes to quitting a job or working part-time and counting on writing income to pay the bills. REALLY TRULY FOR REAL.

Lots and lots of people who aren't the next Faulkner/Austen/Morrison (pick your favorite canon author!) get published every day. Because publishing is a business FIRST. I gave contracts to romance authors who were sort of just-better-than-meh because I had slots to fill and they had finished manuscripts that didn't make me puke. Especially when it comes to genre fiction, a novel that follows the rules and gives readers what they expect is often the book that gets bought, instead of the one that's going to make readers (god forbid!) a little nervous because it breaks new ground. It's not a wonderful thing, but it is what it is. Breakouts -- such as Diana Gabaldon, who mixed historical novel with romance and used first person POV (gasp!) -- are a huge risk. In her case, it paid off FOR THE PUBLISHER. Same with Harry Potter. But the imitators to Rowling's throne are never going to enjoy the huge success of the original, and publishers know it. There are only so many chances publishers are willing to take when the bottom line is dollars, which aren't coming as quickly or as many as they used to. Books are in danger, for a lot of reasons.

Sail's got a damn healthy attitude, for the record. My only real advice to anyone who loves to write is to DO IT FOR THE JOY you get out of it first, just like baking a cake for your family or taking a great shot of the sunset on vacation. Because while there's still a place for a fabulously reviewed, bestselling novel from a first-timer ( Cold Mountain, say), publishing is much more often about P&L reports, open slots, and minimizing payout than it is about Art. For most authors, writing is going to be a part-time gig or a secondary income in a two-income family, and that's just facts.

I love writing, and I love people who write and want to talk about and share writing, but I also hate to see hearts broken. Everybody who writes with an eye to publishing needs to be aware that publishing, as Barb and I can tell you (in detail! ask us how!), often sucks rotting moose cock.

Everybody who writes with an eye to publishing needs to be aware that publishing, as Barb and I can tell you (in detail! ask us how!), often sucks rotting moose cock.

Not. Enough. Word. In. The. World.

::gropes Amy::

Sure I write for joy. But I want to get published too, and not just for the money (though I'd really like some money if I could get it.) Published, especially in non-fiction gets more readers. Also it gets your ideas listened to even by people who don't read what you say. I have been published in short form - my blog posts on Grist are edited, my articles in Z and other short magazines some of whom even pay. But I would like to be read by more people, and a book published by a respectable publisher gets read and reviewed and paid more attention to than something self-published, or published in a small magazine.

I think I'd feel the same even if my goal was fiction. Past a certain point part of the joy of writing is readers. Heard melodies are sweeter.

I write all the time, I can't not. Most of it is tripe, and it never reaches the stage of being published or even posted anywhere anyone could read it.

Yes, it makes me happy when someone likes the way I say something, here on b.org, on LJ, in a long and newsy email, as well as in a poem, or a bit of short fiction. But if I never got that much validation*, I'd still write. I'd explode if I didn't. I'm a writer in my own eyes, and some days, that's enough.

*maybe I need to rethink that writer thing, what with correct word useage and all

I wrote for years in journals long before anyone read anything I wrote. I don't think I'd ever stop writing. But getting published at this point is a goal.

Gar, like I said -- go for it! I have no quibble with anyone aiming for publication. Hell, I'm hoping (like hell) to sell another book (or more!). I just don't want anyone to have unrealistic expectations.

::gropes Barb back::

I'm sorry I was rude. But maybe you do go into publishing correspondence and stuff wearing certain expectancies on your sleeve, Susan. Maybe it sets other people off, too. Maybe that was the thought I was aiming for without all the harsh and profanity. And I do think your work is interesting, even. I've liked it,when I've seen it.

Thank you, erika. I'll certainly think about how I'm presenting myself within the industry.

I will say, too, that one of the most frustrating things about publishing (among other extremely frustrating things) is to go to conferences or read interviews with editors and hear them say, "We're looking for different! We're looking for out of the box! We're really tired of XYZ!" And then when they mention what they're looking for, you think to yourself, "Yes, I have something like that!"

And you submit it, and you maybe get the request for the full, and they ultimately reject it as being "not quite what they want," and in the meantime, they've just bought six manuscripts that are XYZ that they claimed to be really tired of seeing-- that they didn't want to buy anymore of.

It's a hellacious mind game and enough to send most sane people running for the hills.

That's why I never, ever claim that I'm sane. *g*

And there's sometimes more to it than you're told. Like, Editor took it to a meeting, and Other Editors (or Publisher) didn't support it. Sometimes it's easiest to pull out the most banal excuse ("it's not quite what I want") to reject something that you really do want, you know? And it's not always a blessing to tell the writer, "Hey, I fought for this! And got shot down six ways to Sunday because everyone else is a pussy!"

The other thing is that editors do want something different. But they want it to be just enough like XYZ that they already publish that a) the editorial board won't shoot it down, and b) readers expecting XYZ won't think, "WTF?!"