Holy crap do I have e. So far, my beta readers are thinking well of a work I was feeling crappy about this morning. I have lots of thinking to do.

You goof. Everyone on the board squeed out loud when you brought it up.

But I get how on certain days, and in certain mindsets, it's hard to be know for yourself.

OK, lets try a sports metaphor. I don't think anyone would disagree that Michael Jordan was one of the greats in Basketball. He is one of the players people argue was the greatest, but you don't have to buy that to argue that he was up there.

And tell your friend that that is something you are born with. Sure if Michael had not practiced and worked damn hard he never would have amounted to anything as a basketball player. But all his practice and hard work let him become a great player specifically because he had that talent. Something in him meant that if he worked hard and practice daily he would be a great player. And if your friend could go back in time, kidnap himself as a three year old, and give himself really intensive training, your friends till could not outplay Jordan.

And that applies to you too. Of course you had to work hard; without hard work you would be writing mediocre fan fiction or blog posts with the occasionally really good sentence to show you could do more if you applied yourself. But without the talent you could work twice as hard as you do and never be anything but mediocre. It takes both talent and hard work to be as good as you are. And I don't think writing talent is anything mystical. It may be a genetic quirk, or result of early childhood experiences, or some interaction between the two. Most basketball players have the characteristic of being over six feet tall. You have the characteristic of being over six foot talented. Nothing mystical about it.

Allyson, Google found these links for me, perhaps they will help: [link] and [link]

A personal example: I enjoy music, but I have no talent for it. After four semesters of piano classes in high school, I had learned enough basic skills to read and play simple pieces of music, but I couldn't make the transition from hitting the notes to making music. The subtleties of timing and pressures and perception that show personality, style, and emotion musically just aren't in me.

that's pitch perfect, dcp!

Continuing dcp's analogy, I can interpret music, but not create it. I love to sing, and I'm pretty good at it, but I have no concept of how people compose songs. The idea of creating a song that didn't exist before is foreign to me. Not only do I lack that talent, I can't even comprehend it. How can you hear a song you've never heard?

However, I've been creating stories that didn't exist before as long as I can remember, and writing them down off and on since I was 8. Inventing characters and telling stories about them is just what I do. I don't know why, and I was almost grown before I realized there was anything unusual about it. I honestly thought everyone told themselves stories to while away the time, even if they didn't write them down, because it really is that natural for me.

I'm still learning to write well. But I believe the desire to tell stories--talent, compulsion, whatever it is--is innate.

I have that same problem, Allyson. As well as the kind of body where when I say "I'm a writer," I get (Patronizing voice) Oh, I bet you are! Or they make me feel like the Pinball Wizard. Like I got this one weird ability at birth so that I'm not a complete freakshow. Which, okay, without the value judgements, I might concede. Except for, it's taken me so much work, and development, and classes, and learning from other writers. I did not just spring fully formed from Richard Price's head. Although, given all the coke he was probably doing in the seventies, he would probably shrug and take me in stride. And I suck at pinball.

::squoodges the writers::

Several very disconnected thoughts:

There is this ongoing fascination with the lightning bolt. The 'I just sat down and wrote this out on a roll of toilet paper and it's pretty good,' genius who pierces the heart of an idea that no one else has before realized was the core of everything. Because people are fascinated with lottery tickets too.

This is hard. Dammit. Even with lightning bolts.

Having a formula for how to write [actually, for how *you* can write - not someone else] doesn't necessarily make one a good writer. It can help get the wheels moving, and keep them moving.

Having inspiration also doesn't necessarily make one a good writer. So many inspired people talk and think and don't put pen to paper for one reason or another.

But these are part of the practice of writing - these and having a community of writers who will tell you that you aren't nuts, or, if necessary, that you are (by the way, you're not).

And, though this doesn't really help you with the engineer, if someone doesn't believe that talent exists - or that it can be programmed - then they're not going to see talent standing right there in front of them. Because they're not looking for it.

Granted, I know little to nothing. And haven't had any coffee yet.

Sometimes I've had the lightning bolt thing. But that's not usually what it's like. (And I fully admit to being a little nuts. I'm obsessed with a city I've only seen on television. That's a little...off the hook. But the writing isn't the crazy part.