Beating a dead mortgage discusson, example that fraud was involved: [link]

Huh.

Gee, you give people a financial incentive to screw over the customer without repercussions, and people screw over customers. Wow.

Kinda' like that recent case where an executive got huge bonuses for canceling people's health insurance because these people had used their insurance a lot. They got sued by a customer who lost her health insurance when they found out she had cancer. (The customer won.)

you have to prove fraud with regard to the securitization and ratings agencies.

Here someone is alleging that: Author Alleges Banks Have Master Minded An Asset Securitization Fraud

(I haven't had time to read the whole thing.)

Greed, Fraud and Duplicity: How the Housing/Lending Bubble Inflated

But unlike a subprime borrower, Wall Street and the rating agencies (Moodys et. al.) could approve their own terms and grant themselves a high rating. In Bitner's memorable description, "Not only was the fox guarding the henhouse, he hired a contractor and built a separate wing so he could feast at his convenience."

...

The entire system flourished because the incentives were all wrong. The borrower got the money by lying,"forgetting" or fudging. The broker only made money by getting a lender to fund the loan, while the lender only made a fat profit if the mortgage was sold to Wall Street for securitization, and Wall Street only made money if they sold the mortgage-backed security to an investor with a high rating from Moodys or Fitch, who only made money if they rated the MBS as AAA regardless of its true risk.

Haven't read this whole thing either....

Bremner found pieces of documents that had been cut to remove signatures and notary seals. Loan applications, escrow agreements and other documents had signatures that had been taped on, he said.

That validated the statements that the victims had been making over and over again: That they did not recall signing these documents and they did not agree to the terms of the loans they were given," says Bremner, a senior investigator in the real estate fraud unit of the San Bernardino County district attorney's office.

See this is what I don't get. Are people signing loan agreements and not keeping a copy of the paperwork? When I sign things (student loan promissory notes, tax forms, etc.), I generally keep a copy. Of course, that might not prevent someone from trying to say "But you also signed this", but it would make it a bit harder to convince someone that you signed two different agreements.

Agreed -- it's not tattling, it's documentation of a known issue.

This. Ugh!

Grr. Some people make me judgmental and impatient. There are only so many times I can present someone with a multiple choice question...the very same multiple choice question...and have it handed back with "Dunno...you pick?" before I have an aneurysm.

I have very little sympathy for people I fluster, but still. Deadlines, people, deadlines. Large and implacable deadlines.

Here someone is alleging that:

If random blogs making allegations are proof, then nothing I can say will be remotely of interest. I tried to explain what happened because this is the kind of thing I learn for a living. I won't post about it anymore.

Timelies all!

My folks are here this weekend, attending a wedding.(The wedding is tomorrow night, and G and I aren't invited. That's ok by us) Both cats have hidden themselves away. I expected that of Luna, but I thought Nova was a more sociable cat than that.

If random blogs making allegations are proof, then nothing I can say will be remotely of interest.

Yeah, I found that after two minutes of googling (am supposed to be working).

eta: although my second post was about a random book, not a random blog.

No, bon bon! We actually need somebody who knows something about this for balance! But, you know, it would be a bit of a busman's holiday for you, so maybe you need to discuss fluffy puppies and hairstyles instead?