Harken: You fought with Captain Reynolds in the war? Zoe: Fought with a lot of people in the war. Harken: And your husband? Zoe: Fight with him sometimes, too.

'Bushwhacked'


The Minearverse 6: Fiery Thread of Death

[NAFDA] "There will be an occasional happy, so that it might be crushed under the boot of the writer." From Zorro to Angel (including Wonderfalls, The Inside and Drive), this is where Buffistas come to anoint themselves in the bloodbath. Oh, and help us get Terriers dvds!


§ ita § - Feb 20, 2009 9:26:50 pm PST #1913 of 4535
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I said three eps, so it gets three eps. But if the missions are boring, three it is.

eta: Harry Lennix is made of win.

There definitely is that. I do want to watch him every week.


Typo Boy - Feb 20, 2009 10:03:51 pm PST #1914 of 4535
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

I am completely uninterested in the idea of a blank slate being prepped for the best sex a man has ever had.

Oh I agree. I'm just saying it seems obvious that literal whoring is going to be a big part of the script. And you are right that it does not have to be. Just because that is a key part of the fictional Dollhouse's business model does not mean it has to be focus of the show. But it seems like given that prostitution is part of the business model, the writers, and specifically Joss, are going to focus a lot of their attention on it. In spite of all the "ambassador" stuff it always looked like a good part of the reason for Inara in Firefly was Joss's "plus, there's a whore".

Though if you really look at it, she may be being whored, but her character is not a whore, but a rape victim. Yeah she signed a general consent form. But in effect when she goes with these guys, she is being fed extremely sophisticate roofies. She is being brainwashed into thinking she is in love with them. Inara at least had agency, if not judgement. And besides skeevy, if "Echo is brainwashed into falling in love with a new skeeveball" is too frequent a theme, then as you say it will be boring. Admittedly having the guy try to hunt her down and kill her, and she gets to fight back was a real varietion.


Kevin - Feb 20, 2009 10:24:58 pm PST #1915 of 4535
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.

Somebody at Whedonesque just called the show "Wolfram and Hart's prostitution division"


Polter-Cow - Feb 20, 2009 10:25:53 pm PST #1916 of 4535
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I'm with victor. This episode was better. It was a little less uncomfortable, but it was still squicky. I find that as long as they keep the focus off Echo, I'm okay. Which...may lead to some issues.

Harry Lennix is made of win.

It's true. Can he be the main character instead?


Fay - Feb 20, 2009 10:31:49 pm PST #1917 of 4535
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

"plus, there's a whore".

sighs

You know, I loved Firefly with a big burny love, so much so that initially I really didn't mind that Inara's plotline was so handwavey, and just mentally filled in all the blanks. But that summary does speak volumes about why I had to make up my own interesting, rounded, Bene Gesserit-style backstory. 'Cause not only was Joss not very interested in filling in the blanks there, he was also giving us a world where current day attitudes to sexuality and sex workers were up front and personal, with Mal's language. All the bloody time. Which couldn't help but undermine the whole 'Hey, it's a respected profession!' thing.

Eh. I hope Dollhouse pulls its socks up.


Kevin - Feb 20, 2009 10:48:39 pm PST #1918 of 4535
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.

Morena gave out Inara's back story recently. Bad Morena.

Harry is a great actor, and Boyd really is The Best Character they have. He doesn't like what they're doing, he doesn't like what he's doing, and he's the emotional connection the show desperately needs. Harry absolutely fucking nails the "Do you trust me?" "With my life" scene.


Stephanie - Feb 21, 2009 12:58:47 am PST #1919 of 4535
Trust my rage

Having slept on it, I think this show is more literal rape than literal whoring which is just hard to watch.

And maybe this doesn't bother anyone else (and I did miss the first 5 minutes of the show) but once again, why pay for an Active who comes with surveillance and who will be missed when you could just kidnap and rape some random girl off the street? I mean, why do you need an Active to fulfill your fantasy here - any girl will do.

Despite the above, I did like this week better than last week.


Kevin - Feb 21, 2009 1:14:26 am PST #1920 of 4535
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.

Stephanie, the client in this episode had insider information (and references). Echo specifically was recruited so she could be taken out. That was the suggestion, I think. Boyd points out during the final scene with Claire it was probably Alpha who organised it, but it's worth watching Claire's facial expressions during that scene. Unless I'm totally wrong.


Steph L. - Feb 21, 2009 2:51:27 am PST #1921 of 4535
I look more rad than Lutheranism

if you're not cool with the prospect of sex with blank slates,

You misspelled "cool with rape."

you won't like the show 'cos that's part of the premise

Which is a swell premise for a show: "watch these Actives -- actually, just the one young, white, nubile female, who you the viewer are supposed to IDENTIFY WITH -- get raped every week!"

But I don't entirely buy that that the show is about how mindwiping and whoring are wrong. I think they're the wrongs that are taken as the given of the show.

What the Dollhouse does is bad enough -- eliminating people's identity, turning them into children, and (as we saw this week) letting them wander around the Dollhouse unable to even protect themselves. Fine. I'm actually on board with the idea that I the viewer am supposed to say, "Wow, is that wrong!" And I think it could have been a really interesting premise to explore, though, honestly, not in a serial medium like TV. I would be mostly okay with it *if* it didn't involve what is essentially nonconsensual prostitution, but instead all the other assignments.

But watching the Actives -- no, again, just the one young, white, nubile, female Active -- get sent out to get raped 75% of the time so far is revolting. What, exactly, is that supposed to say about identity?

That's a serious question, BTW.

And is it worth it for Joss, or the show, to be so goddamn exploitative of women to make a point about identity?


Ailleann - Feb 21, 2009 3:29:25 am PST #1922 of 4535
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda

She's also a backup singer wearing one of the shortest skirts in the world.

You know, I think there's some kind of Eliza Factor going on with Fox right now. Last night I was way more skeeved by the Hulu ad featuring her than I was the show. Baldwin gets a sharp suit and an alien tentacle adjusting his tie in his commercial, and Eliza gets a tight tank top and a creepy alien tongue wrapping sexily around a phallic object.

I wonder if pushing some of the sexually-related engagements to the very start of the show is intended to "hook" some of the male audience, because "They" think that the only way to get guys to watch this show is to show Eliza in a lot of skimpy clothes really early on?

From where I'm watching, I thought this episode pretty clearly demonstrates that whoever's running the Dollhouse doesn't care at all about these people, personality-wise or body-wise. And it showed what happened when the Dollhouse took its actives for granted (the flashbacks about Alpha). I think the meat of the show is going to be about when people within the organization (Boyd, the doctor, not!Warren) start to realize what they're involved in and why they don't approve.

But I can understand how the consent issues can make it difficult to get there.