But I *do* try stuff that's outside the zone of Stuff I Know(TM), like learning to fence, which required a FUCKLOAD of flailing and looking like an idiot. But it was FUN flailing, which I think is key.

Well, yeah. I'm not sure that I would ever think of calculus as fun flailing.

RE: the LoC flickr? DAMN that's cool. I wonder if they'll get most of their collection up on flickr?

Do you find that kids who parents think are "gifted" are actually just kids who are less dumb?

Yes...

I agree that it is so frustrating to deal with the gifted student who does nothing and then complains about their "F". The parents blame the teachers because we obviously aren't aware of how amazing their child is.

The kids who work hard but aren't labled 'gifted' are some of the most enjoyable to work with.

I have had some truly gifted students who were a total joy to work with. Their work was always above par and would push a class to create amazing products.

Most people can learn how to draw accurately

It would be nice if art teachers acted from that premise. As far as I can see, kids are allowed to draw badly, because some people just aren't good at drawing. Which you're not allowed to say about reading.

at least doing the work

Ah, yes. I did at least do the work. Otherwise I'd have died at the hands of my parents. Or at my own hands, to spare myself a slow and torturous death.

god how he hates to try new things

Muffin (it's my noodle)! He's the ultimate in new things with the new mother and country and language.

The Mindset stuff totally rings true.

This month I'm actually externing at a different law office, doing totally different stuff. It is tough and scary and I hate it but after awhile it seems to increase my confidence about doing anything. Which I'm sure will pass, but it testifies to the worth of doing something new, something you'll fail at.

Do you find that kids who parents think are "gifted" are actually just kids who are less dumb?

I wonder if it comes from the same place as the grade inflation/C is no longer average place. I remember being surprised that within about 6 years the valedictorian at my high school went from a person with a 95 average (my graduating year and those before it) to someone with a 95 average not even being in the top ten of the school (a younger family friend) In 1991 our school's top 10 ranged from 92 - 95, while 6 years later the top 10 ranged from 99 - 100

I mean, if A level work is "gifted" and everyone gets A's, then is everyone gifted?

I don't like pushing past my comfort zone of Stuff I Know(TM) and flailing about to try new stuff, because I don't like looking like an idiot when I'm "supposed" to be so smart.

This is me. And I sometimes go to ridiculous lengths to figure things out myself to spare myself the humiliation of revealing ignorance.

On some levels, until I learned to skate (which I unfortunately haven't had the money/time to get back to since AB was born) and started writing novels, I'd never done anything that was hard for me. Emotionally trying, sure, I'd lived through the normal share of difficult experiences. But before skating I'd never pushed myself to do anything physical that didn't come easily to me. And before my first novel, I'd never pushed my writing ability past the effortless point.

I'm glad I learned to work. I just wished I'd done it sometime before my 30th birthday.

Most people can learn how to draw accurately, its drawing expresively that's the tricksy part.

This. I've found that if you can get them to look at an object upside-down or from some other unusual angle most people can learn to do an accurate rendering. It's a matter of getting them to stop seeing their symbolic mental image of whatever it is and actually look at it. Now drawing something from memory, or something they've imagined rather than seen, is where the need for talent comes in.

It would be nice if art teachers acted from that premise. As far as I can see, kids are allowed to draw badly, because some people just aren't good at drawing. Which you're not allowed to say about reading.

Well yeah and it would make drawing classes seem less like woowoo-only-certain-people-can-do-it bullshit. We had a teacher at my first school who was awesome at teaching people to draw. When kids struggled she would tell them it wasn't that they were bad at art, but that they were looking too fast and their eyes were moving faster than their hands. She suggested first off that they slow down and it did get easier. She was wonderful.

Math is this weird place where we do allow people to stop engaging in learning it because they aren't good at it innately. And it's something we wouldn't let reading teachers get away with.

Muffin (it's my noodle)! He's the ultimate in new things with the new mother and country and language.

ok, perhaps I do tend to forget the big picture wrt to mac. it's good for me to keep the perspective.