Well I guess that explains all the poor and starving people in the world. If only they'd remembered to think "I wish I had a sandwich" instead of "I wish I wasn't so cold and hungry!"

Exactly!

Actually, I think you can get in trouble with wishing, too. Ideally, you sit around thinking, "I am full and warm," and hey presto, you are. Or something.

But to take it to the Universe not recognizing the word No? Huh?

Yeah, that's one of the things that bugs me about The Secret. Of course, the other thing that bugs me about it is that (from what I understand, at least), The Secret doesn't say anything about then going forth and WORKING toward what you're trying to attract to your life. In my world, positive thinking and wishes are very important, but absolutely have to be paired with actual effort on my part. Just wishing for something isn't good enough.

Well that explains why Daniel Radcliffe isn't in my office right now. I just wished it. Gonna have to work on it.

Well that explains why Daniel Radcliffe isn't in my office right now. I just wished it. Gonna have to work on it.

Well, maybe lots of people have that wish, and he just goes about being teleported from place to place all day.

Your mom is incredibly tolerant of every race, creed, religion and orientation, except for conservatism,"

I have a a problem doing this myself. I try so hard to be tolerant, but then other people are intolerant, and then I am intolerant of them. And I feel bad about it, because I should practice what I preach.

Well, maybe lots of people have that wish, and he just goes about being teleported from place to place all day.

And the universe gets confused and that's why it can't filter out all the negatives?

I think the Univerise is keeping all the Daniel Radcliffe for herself.

Well, maybe lots of people have that wish, and he just goes about being teleported from place to place all day.

Well, good to know he's having some fun.

The Secret doesn't say anything about then going forth and WORKING toward what you're trying to attract to your life.

Bringing the conversation nicely back to the beginning -- my mom used to tell us this joke:

A man prayed every night for God to let him win the lottery, but he never did. One night he cried out in desperation, "Oh Lord, I have lived a good and faithful life, and all I have ever asked of You is to let me win the lottery!"

And God replied, "I will grant your prayer, but first, you must do something for Me."

"What is is?" asked the man. "I'll do anything!!"

"Well," said God, "First, you must go and buy a lottery ticket..."

Yeah, I'm interested in talking about the actions side of faith. I'm pretty sure that some of my day to day decisions would drive some buffistas bugfuck. And I'm trying to get a grasp on how that works for me, what it means to me.

Irrational things I have done because of my faith include: quitting a (household) $100,000/yr job, moving hundreds of miles away from family & friends, living deliberately in subpar conditions on minimum wage incomes, driving constantly across the country in a minivan, spending a lot of time hanging out with teenagers in noisy environments.

Now, those things could all be filed under nonreligious social justice issues and be considered fine. Not much harm done there other than sacrificed relationships with family members and environmental damage from excessive travel.

But at some point, my work must naturally diverge from social justice work alone, because I believe that there's more that's necessary than to just address the tangible social needs. I have a sense of purpose and direction and that's something I want to convey to my students. Does that do harm from the eyes of a secularist? Is a sense of purpose inherently problematic if it's a (presumably) delusional purpose?

The way one of my agnostic friends phrased it is that if Christians really believed what we claim to believe; if we actually believed in damnation, then we would be desperate, panicky, to make sure our friends and family didn't suffer. But we're not, so (from his perspective) either it's not true or we don't care.

(And yeah, JZ, I know what you mean. He's a way better Christian than I am, and he's totally actively rejected Christ.)