Trudy, that argument sounds like the jar of peanut butter is proof that evolution doesn't exist. A belief in the supernatural isn't the same as the set of emotions human beings feel that are the result of chemicals floating around in our heads.

ETA: I apologize if this appears to be mean. I'm rereading some things I've said inconversations with others, and gah, I can be really cruel. I'm totally not coming at you from a mean place.

I find it difficult to have a relationship with someone who clearly believes I will BURN IN HELL!!!!

Well, yes. But not everyone who Believes thinks you will.

I forgot to bring it around to why I'm a hypocrite, while it doesn't bother me if someone goes to church on Sunday and has issues with abortion and such, it makes me bonkers when someone holds up a copy of The Secret in the same way as a friend would hold up the Bible.

Neither drives me bonkers, both just kind of make me shrug. I suppose it's that The Bible doesn't claim to be scientifically accurate (though some of it's followers claim it is) and The Secret does?

Certainly not all believers think a non-believer will burn in hell. and even amongst those that do believe that, I'd think at least a portion of them would feel it their Christian duty to respect you as a creation of God and to treat you adn show you respect as a reflection of how a good Christian acts.

But not everyone who Believes thinks you will.

Nilly once said to me that "no one knows god's scorecard."

And that was my most favorite thing Nilly said to me.

Certainly not all believers think a non-believer will burn in hell. and even amongst those that do believe that, I'd think at least a portion of them would feel it their Christian duty to respect you as a creation of God and to treat you adn show you respect as a reflection of how a good Christian acts.

Oh yeah, and that's mostly been my experience all my life, msbelle. True dat.

And, as per usual, Nilly is absolutely correct.

I always think of how in The Horse and His Boy all the true believers of Tash (the false god) got to cross over into Aslan's world even though they didn't believe in the "right" God. So, believers and non-believers who treat others with respect and love are the same-- it doesn't really matter what you believe just what your actions are and where your heart is. Or something. And I don't even know that I believe, just that I don't not believe.

Trudy, that argument sounds like the jar of peanut butter is proof that evolution doesn't exist. A belief in the supernatural isn't the same as the set of emotions human beings feel that are the result of chemicals floating around in our heads.

I'm not saying anything about proof, I'm talking about expanding a level of acceptance you already have for certain nuttyness to include more nuttyness.

You see love as chemicals in our heads, a lot of people see it as a lot more powerful, profound and verging-on or actually supernatural -- but whether they do or don't one doesn't respond to a declaration of love by saying "nah, that's just chemicals floating around in your head."

ETA: I apologize if this appears to be mean. I'm rereading some things I've said inconversations with others, and gah, I can be really cruel. I'm totally not coming at you from a mean place.

You're not coming off as mean at all, IMHO.

I always think of how in The Horse and His Boy all the true believers of Tash (the false god) got to cross over into Aslan's world even though they didn't believe in the "right" God. So, believers and non-believers who treat others with respect and love are the same-- it doesn't really matter what you believe just what your actions are and where your heart is. Or something. And I don't even know that I believe, just that I don't not believe.

Oh, man, maybe that's where I got that! Or maybe it's the only thing that really makes sense. Um, to me.

The Secret makes me bonkers, too. Maybe because it's actually a religion (based on magical woo-woo), but it's presented like a system (based on some kind of fact).