"Adore" and "fascinated" are too girly for writers to be allowed to use? Huh? Ok, true, "adore" is a word that female persons may be more likely to use than male persons, in describing themselves and their feelings. Howsomever, I have most certainly, beyond a shadow of a doubt, observed male persons engaged in attitude and behavior that I, as a female person, would find appropriate to describe as "adoring". And as for "fascinated", has this person never met any geeks? Because one of the hallmarks of geekery is getting fascinated, often by the minutiae, with topics that the general public generally is not fascinated with. Also, stereotypically, geeks are more frequently male than female.

Therefore I call bullshit.

Furthermore, as for having learned to avoid specifically girly uses of language, that's all well and good if that's how s/he likes to play it. But as for a prescription for how others should be writing, I would like to come down on the side of gleefully employing the connotations of words to set specific tones, thereby making one's writing that bit more interesting. Atonal writing? Less interesting.

So go, Susan, for not bitchslapping this bland turd of a supposed writer.

Furthermore, as for having learned to avoid specifically girly uses of language, that's all well and good if that's how s/he likes to play it.

Actually, I'd say the "girliest" thing in this whole situation is the internalized misogyny in that very notion. Or maybe just the saddest.

I adore and am fascinated with this conversation. How absurd! A new group sounds like a better plan, Susan. The temptation to stick around and battle with the idiocy might be there, but I'd suggest spending your time seeking a supportive group without the wacky closed mindedness.

And here I was thinking that after a year and a bit in Bangkok I was past being surprised by the impressive things people can apparently do with their genitals.

I just had to read that again.

{{all}} Yes, I skipped.

Any writer that would refuse to use certain words because they're considered "girlie" is an idiot. A painter doesn't refuse to use pink in his or her pallet and that's what words are to a writer.

Feh. Susan, you're better of walking away from someone like that and a group peopled with them.

And here I was thinking that after a year and a bit in Bangkok I was past being surprised by the impressive things people can apparently do with their genitals.

Well, one night in Bangkok makes a hard man humble.

I will NEVER get tired of those jokes, by the way, Fay. Sorry if you've heard them all a thousand times.

I get my kicks above the waistline, sunshine.

I will NEVER get tired of those jokes, by the way, Fay. Sorry if you've heard them all a thousand times.

Yep, me too. (Sorry Fay.)

claiming you "adore" something, or are "fascinated" by some aspect of history, for example, are very "feminine" uses of language.

Mr. Spock was girly?

I now have a Frankendog with a face full of stitches, and I've realized that the pleading look said dog kept giving me was not "I've had a hard life." It was, "My head hurts." I have also discovered that he will eat pills, or, presumably, dynamite, if they are covered with cheese.

Go Fay with the not running away! I am trying to convince myself to talk you out of getting more lovely clothes, but I am far too enamored of the descriptions. Peacock silk coat!

Hooray for cheese for Mr. Peabody. I am really cheering for the pills but I don't want him to know that.

Eta: I think some of my cognitive dissonance with the idea that "adore" = girly vocabularly is that it has mostly religious connotations for me. Whole other thing.

The temptation to stick around and battle with the idiocy might be there, but I'd suggest spending your time seeking a supportive group without the wacky closed mindedness.

That's the plan. I could stick around and try to change the place, but they seem happy with themselves the way they are...and this isn't the molehill I want to die on.

Any writer that would refuse to use certain words because they're considered "girlie" is an idiot. A painter doesn't refuse to use pink in his or her pallet and that's what words are to a writer.

Exactly. In my WIP, one of the major characters is a 9-year-old girl--a bubbly, vivacious, feminine, and precociously intelligent kid. I'm not going to sell her personality short by refusing to let her express herself as the girly girl that she is, partly because she's also intelligent and tough and I like showing that those traits can go together...but mostly because that's just her. By the same token, I'm not going to limit the masculinity of my vocabulary when I'm in the head of my manly-man general. That would be, to use my daughter's favorite word, silly.

Yay for date, Fay! And I have a hard time talking you out of those clothes, because they sound fun.

Actually, I'd say the "girliest" thing in this whole situation is the internalized misogyny in that very notion. Or maybe just the saddest.

Everyone is right, but brenda so very much so.

Is this a private email exchange, or is it going out to your whole list? Because if it's the latter, you can probably rest assured that every single other person on the list is boggling at her jackassery (if that's an acceptably non-gender-coded word -- maybe "assholery" would be better?).

I have also discovered that he will eat pills, or, presumably, dynamite, if they are covered with cheese.

Poor doggie. I remember our childhood dog, Missy, would occasionally get terrible infections and scratches and injuries that we didn't pick up on right away just because she always wore that pleading look and refused to whimper even a little until the pain was nigh unbearable. Dogs can often be too patient and stoic for their own good, poor things.

H A P P Y

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