The girl I like told me she can't see me any more. A fine ending to a day that consisted of nothing but being very hung-over.

Well, bugger.

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It's an interesting conversation because cultural identity and religious affiliation are separate for me. My parents would have been much happier if I'd married a nice Japanese boy (I told them I'd have been happy to marry a nice Japanese boy, but I'd never met a Japanese boy who wasn't my cousin, what with the whole growing up in small-town Ohio and all.) but that was strictly cultural identity, and not religious (my mom grew up Buddhist, but my dad grew up Christian).

But I won't pretend that it hasn't figured in our current conversation about whether or not to have kids. My sister has lovely half-Japanese half-Caucasian kids. Who were raised in Africa and speak French and Toma. Who knows what their cultural identity is. If we do have kids, it will be strange to me because they will have a completely different experience with their ethnic background and cultural identity than I did, and I'm not altogether sure what the best method guiding them in that area would be.

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Why am I earwormed with "The Battle of New Orleans"?

I think that, especially growing up around NYC, Judaism as both religion and cultural identity doesn't seem weird to me at all. I once totally confused someone at college who asked me about the ethnic makeup of the town where I grew up, and I replied something like, "Well, of the kids in school, I'd say about 25% Irish, 30% Italian, maybe 10% other sorts of Catholics, 25% WASP, 5% Jewish, and most of the rest Asian." Apparently most of the rest of the country would classify that as "About 95% white," but that was definitely how we all thought about it.

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Apparently most of the rest of the country would classify that as "About 95% white," but that was definitely how we all thought about it.

I always find it weird when people (generally from America, I've found) call themselves 'Irish' or Italian'. To me, it's like, but no, you're American. Boy claims he's Italian, whereas I think that seeing as how I've actually been to Italy, I'm more Italian than he is. Back in America, I'm sure he stil identifies as Italian, but once he's abroad, his Americaness is more dominant, I guess.

I think maybe part of it is difference in how we use language. Like I know people born in Ireland, whose parents are foreign, but they'll call themselves Irish, and say that their parents are from Russia or Gambia or wherever, rather than calling themselves Russian or Gambian.

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If asked to be technical about it, I'm sure most would say they're "Irish-American" or "Italian-American."

Boy is from Boston, right? That sort of stuff seems to be way more common in the northeast. Or, maybe it's in most cities. The people who were totally confused by it in college were mostly the ones from rural areas, or from really non-diverse cities like Bismarck.

I remember a boy in my class getting shoved around one year (fifth grade, maybe?) because he didn't wear green on St. Patrick's Day. (That was a year that St. Patrick's Day fell on a Wednesday, and a schoolyard myth was that if you wear green on a Wednesday, it means you're gay, and he'd mostly been trying to decide whether he wanted to get beaten up for being gay, or for not respecting St. Patrick. Because, really, someone always found some excuse for beating up this kid.)

And, I think that pretty much all the kids I grew up with would identify as American first, but then have whatever ethnic identity as how they distinguished themselves from other Americans.

(Though, really, I'm not sure. I remember one time, at the synagogue youth group, we were supposed to have a discussion about how "Jewish" and "American" fit into our self-identities, and there were lots of different opinions about which came first.)

And the identity thing reminds me of an incident when I was in college. I was sitting in the dorm lounge, and I overhead someone saying, "Why don't you ask Hillary? She's Jewish." I said, "Ask me what?" and after a bit of hemming and hawing, one of the other girls asked me, "Are you offended by the Confederate flag?" I said yes. She said, "OK, but are you offended as a Jew, or are you offended as a Yankee?" I was a bit stunned, as I'd never thought of the word "Yankee" to describe myself, but that was how they saw me.

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I'm sure most would say they're "Irish-American" or "Italian-American."

Yeah, you're right I'm sure. And yup, Boy is from Boston, where there's a whole Italian/Irish thing going on. Or at least, there used to be. Which is why the last thing his grandad said to him before he left for Europe was "Don't go marrying an Irish girl." Oops.

(That was a year that St. Patrick's Day fell on a Wednesday, and a schoolyard myth was that if you wear green on a Wednesday, it means you're gay, and he'd mostly been trying to decide whether he wanted to get beaten up for being gay, or for not respecting St. Patrick. Because, really, someone always found some excuse for beating up this kid.)

Oh that poor kid! Bless his heart. Damned if you do...

I just found out about that hitting people on St. Patrick's Day thing! It was in an old episode of The Simpsons.

ETA - So because I'm culturally ignorant, not really sure what the whole 'Yankee' thing is about, except that I've been told they suck. As a baseball team.

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Eep, Cass, hope the hardest part is, in fact, behind you. Anti-panic~ma, and best of luck to you and niecelet.

Yeah, I think the hardest part was getting her here.

Certainly my panic sort of melted when I saw her at the airport. Her first words were, "You're a sight for sore eyes," hugging me, which was kinda sweet. She just looked so ... Life Tired.

And we just stopped randomly talking and decided that maybe it was bedtime.

Cass, I hope that things can get better for your niece - I'm sure that spending time with you will help her, but from what you have said, it may not improve things with her mother.

Yeah, her relationship with her parents is going to take years to fix but maybe they can stop ripping each other apart. I just hate that she's hurting so much.

Bedtime, yes.

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I always find it weird when people (generally from America, I've found) call themselves 'Irish' or Italian'.

Jars - it also may have something to do with nearly everyone from America originating somewhere else. Part of how you distinguish yourself is by where you're from and who you're people are. Only blessedly more common recently is distinguishing yourself with who your (real) people are also.

{{Cass & Niecelet}}. It's really great that she feels she can come to you.

Gris (& Big Duluth too) - points waaaay up to Bonny's thread: bonny fides "Spike's Bitches 38: Well, This Is Just...Neat." Nov 4, 2007 8:02:58 pm PST Bonny is wise. and also a really good person.

eta: we cooked pumpkin last night - cream of pumpkin soup; pumpkin seeds (regular and old bay); the start of a puree for pie; and a pulauo (with punkin, potato, peas, carrots, onions, zucchini, and rice). That was one big pumpkin.

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Cass, much ~ma for the niecelet. I hope her visit winds up being a source of strength for her.

So because I'm culturally ignorant, not really sure what the whole 'Yankee' thing is about, except that I've been told they suck. As a baseball team.

There are a couple of shades of meaning. It can mean someone from New England (Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Massachussetts--and I can't remember if Connecticut is on the list or not), with a certain stereotype of thriftiness and humorlessness lurking in the wings. It's also a term people in the American South use to refer to people from the North.

Edit: Sox, that was a big pumpkin! I cooked one this weekend, and I got enough for one pie and, alas, not quite enough to make soup.

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