True, but the machine is usually mentioned once per episode, as in "The machine has given us a new number", and that's about it. From there it's a procedural formula all the way. It just doesn't seem very sci-fi to me, and looking back over the thread you have posted here about it in the past too.
Willow: It feels like we're going around in circles. Xander: Our circles are going around in circles. We got dizzy circles here.
'Sleeper'
Procedurals 1: Anything You Say Can and Will Be Used Against You.
This thread is for procedural TV, shows where the primary idea is to figure out the case. [NAFDA]
sj - Feb 23, 2013 5:02:19 am PST #9616 of 11831
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."
§ ita § - Feb 23, 2013 7:10:48 am PST #9617 of 11831
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
They've given more focus on the personality of the machine in recent episodes, which is why I've come to appreciate the inherent science fictional elements. it's not a black box spitting out the problem of the week. It's a character, and it's also a prize, with Root in the chase.
Me being wrong before doesn't affect my conviction now.
sj - Feb 23, 2013 7:39:15 am PST #9618 of 11831
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."
I didn't realize you were proposing it should be moved to Boxed Set from your previous statement but that it has always been considered a Boxed Set show, which it hasn't in the past. If people would rather post about it in Boxed Set than Procedurals, I don't have a problem with that, but I am not really convinced it belongs there.
§ ita § - Feb 23, 2013 8:14:03 am PST #9619 of 11831
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
You don't think the Machine is sci fi, or that it's not important to the show? It seems to be a driver for the season arc (and beyond) to me.
le nubian - Feb 23, 2013 10:11:26 am PST #9620 of 11831
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."
I am with sj. Even if the machine comes more into the plot, the show centers around crime and its prevention and figuring that out every week is the driver.
le nubian - Feb 23, 2013 10:16:36 am PST #9621 of 11831
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."
Let me add that I don't think this show is much different from NUMB3RS. I think of it like Numb3rs meets The Equalizer. That's where I situate it in a genre.
§ ita § - Feb 23, 2013 11:25:24 am PST #9622 of 11831
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Huh. It seems a pretty clear sci fi procedural to me. I was thinking the question was--where do you discuss a sci fi procedural, not is this sci fi? I don't understand the correlation with Numb3rs at all. There's an AI, a very proto-Skynettish AI, with a personality and goals and abilities impossible in today's technology, and the fact that it's an individual (and therefore sci fi in my interpretation of the genre) is the season arc, since it's their antagonist's motivation.
sj - Feb 23, 2013 11:50:54 am PST #9623 of 11831
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."
For me it comes down to if I were weighing the sci to elements on one side of a scale and the procedural elements on the other side the procedural side would be heavier, but it sounds to me like you're saying that the sci fi elements trumps everything?
le nubian - Feb 23, 2013 2:05:56 pm PST #9624 of 11831
"And to be clear, I am the hell. And the high water."
so I'm still with sj.
the computer (and what it is exactly) is not often discussed. if we take how it was explained in the first part of season 1, it is like numb3rs in that the computer was putting together probabilities and attempting to predict when a person in NYC would be murdered.
I think the average person who drops in the series may not get the full implications of what the computer does or is. it seems to me, what makes a genre show is that the full import of the genre should be apparent always. I would argue it isn't apparent most of the time with PoI.
You can't say this about Dr. Who, Fringe, Being Human, X-files, or Quantum Leap.
§ ita § - Feb 24, 2013 11:28:35 am PST #9625 of 11831
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
To me, in general, the procedural elements of any show will always be weakest in terms of picking a place to discuss them. If a show is [something] procedural and there's a [something] space, my gut reaction is to put it there, since procedural isn't much of a narrative unifying concept. It's usually the least interesting part of a show, and PoI isn't an exception to my appreciation.
As far as sci fi in this specific show, the machine is an AI, and AI is sci fi. The machine isn't just sci fi in the CSI sense where we can't actually do that but everyone pretends that we can, but in the story they not only admit that it's an AI, it's the motivation of this season's big bad.
Clearly there's never going to be enough momentum to move where this discussion is happening--mostly I'm just surprised that other people aren't processing the sci fi elements are relevant, where it seems to be the entire point of the show to me.
About the show itself--why were so many people saying this week's was a stunning hour of TV? I ended up watching it twice (I forgot I'd watched it before, and once I realised it was a redo I thought maybe I'd understand the acclaim) and I still don't know--sociopath Shahi is never not going to be cool, but I'm clearly missing why it's elevated above everything else in ever.