Lucy has played her share of bitch. I

KInd of my point. Her default role, which for once she is not playing.

Oh, right. Maybe Danno didn't call on purpose so mom would be gone before he told Steve, to avoid difficult choices having to be made...

I can see them going there, sumi.

I don't know that anything about the Mama McGarrett story worked for me, but I am grumpily tired of dead mothers being shockingly still alive in general.

why people who normally dislike Lucy Liu but don't here

Oh, I thought your "here" was b.org, and "normally" was the rest of viewership.

Where are you getting the information that people have disliked Lucy up until now and like her in this?

Where are you getting the information that people have disliked Lucy up until now and like her in this?

I'm an anecdata point. (Although I wouldn't say I *liked* her in Elementary; I just didn't dislike her, which is a great deal more than I've ever felt towards her before.)

I'm assuming there's going to be a shift with each role. Some will like that didn't like, some will not like that liked.

I don't know that she has a traditional Lady Dragon choice of characters--we're talking Charlie's Angels here. She played an icy character in Southland, who was Lady Dragon within the text, and kind of fighting it and playing into it at the same time. I mean, you saw how she was different, and how she was exploiting it.

She's done it sometimes, and sometimes she doesn't do it.

I was interpreting Typo's statement the second time to mean that a) this is a shift from the rest of her career and b) the rest of her career could be usefully characterised as Asian Ice Princess and c) there's a sea change in the audience response to her . But I'm probably still misreading. I do not know where the data for c) would come from either.

One person on B.org who normally dislikes her doesn't. All was saying that not playing into the racist stereotype she normally plays may have something to do with it. "Here" is "Elementary". On this show she is not doing something she does in many of her roles, and I think all of her most famous ones. I used the plural in case the opinion I was responding to was not unique.

All of her most famous ones? Is there something I'm missing about Charlie's Angels, either the profile or the character? Which are the dragon lady stereotype characters you're thinking of? The last thing I saw her in before Southland which was a complex role was a when-will-I-marry Lifetime romcom. My favourite thing she was in she played an assassin, but there was no Orientalism in it. So this must mean she was Asian Bitch Goddess in Kill Bill (she was an Asian antagonist in that, but I don't think that's the same thing--educate me if I'm wrong) and...Dirty Sexy Money? Ally McBeal? That's what your analysis is based on?

I liked Elementary well enough, but where Sherlock (BBC) succeeded for me was the instant spark between Sherlock and Watson. You need that for it to be believable that Watson won't just say "Fuck off, you are rude and unbearable." I didn't quite get that in Elementary.

I'll give you Southland and Kill Bill, but Charlies Angels was totally Dragon Lady - Dragon Lady on the side of good. "Aye Barrcuda".

She was a bitch in Charlie's Angels? I really saw a different version of both of those than you did--they were all uber cool (in an I'd do margaritas with them way) with a humorous flaw (she couldn't cook, if memory serves). Not a frosty distant mean and domineering woman with an Oriental (purposely chosen) fetishising twist. Her ethnicity seemed entirely irrelevant, and she was 1/3 of the movie's competence porn, that's all.