Anya ,'Dirty Girls'
[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.
Also, does anyone know where the Old Testmant/Torah talks about the mesiah?
From my perspective as a Christian, I'd say it's all over the place, though most heavily in the prophetic books and in Isaiah more than anywhere else. Isaiah 53 is probably the favorite messianic passage from a Christian POV, also Isaiah 9:2-7. But I'd also get a Jewish perspective on which are the most important messianic passages, because Christians are naturally going to glom onto anything that reminds us of Jesus.
Misradim! Right?!
Misradim! Right?!
Close - Midrashim (singular midrash). They aren't quite the same thing as apocrypha, though; rather than being books that weren't included, they're more like commentaries on the canonical books, with a good bit of added (and likely folkloric) material blended in.
Ha, I retained some knowledge. If a bit skewed.
Research show that OT can be considered perjortive to some Jews; Tanakh is almost the same as OT.
As a teacher, I'd lay the whole mess of names on the table, explain the various schools of thought. and say "Do you think we should use the term OT or Tanakh?"
After I checked my pronounciation. ta-KNOCK? ta-nOCH?
You all rock. Thank you.
I'd stick to "Bible" and the particular book you're talking about, both for the sake of neutrality and for getting on to the "you should know these stories whatever you are" point -- "Torah" technically only refers to the first five books..."Torah" as a term is never disrespectful, but, as I said, it's only a part -- if you're talking about the Psalms, Proverbs, Song of Songs, any of the David-era history stuff, the prophets, etc. etc., it's just not accurate.I'll stick to Bible. And how did I not know that the Torah is only the first five books? Ack. I feel like a moron.
Oh, and yes, I do know that it would be offensive to call the pre-Jesus text "The Old Testament" in general, but I also want them to know the term "Old Testament" since it is frequently used in literature.
So is there a separate name for the books after the first five but before what Christians call "The New Testament"? Would those books just be part of the Bible, from a Jewish perspective?
Islam views the Jewish and Christian bibles as prophetic works, and as sacred, and says that Mohammed's revelation is the final one. I recommend No God But God as a great (and readable, and not too long) overview of Islam that covers those connections well, and also puts a lot of contemporary matters into context.Excellent, thank you.
Susan, thank you for the Isaiah references. I will definitely look for non-Christian perspectives as well (such is the power of the hivemind), though I know many Buffista Jews are celebrating Rosh Hashanah at the moment.
Oh, and yes, I do know that it would be offensive to call the pre-Jesus text "The Old Testament" in general, but I also want them to know the term "Old Testament" since it is frequently used in literature.
Absolutely -- in fact, as Erin rightly points out, it's a terrific teaching opportunity to lay out the different terms and why naming them can be a big deal.
So is there a separate name for the books after the first five but before what Christians call "The New Testament"?
The whole Hebrew bible is called "Tanakh", which is an acronym (dude, we were geeks way before there was an internet!) for Torah, Nevi'im (="prophets"), Ketuvim (="writings", which is sort of a catch-all category for poetry like the psalms and songs, proverbs, scrolls like Ruth and Esther, some other stuff we don't know what to do with, and the kitchen sink. sinks. one meat, one dairy, one neutral.)
Wikipedia reminds me that the alternate term for "Tanakh" is "Mikra", which I have honestly never ever heard used in real life. But it's a fabulous word that you'd dig, because it literally means "that which is read", in kind of the same way that "Scripture" means "That which is written".
The whole Hebrew bible is called "Tanakh", which is an acronym (dude, we were geeks way before there was an internet!) for Torah, Nevi'im (="prophets"), Ketuvim (="writings", which is sort of a catch-all category for poetry like the psalms and songs, proverbs, scrolls like Ruth and Esther, some other stuff we don't know what to do with, and the kitchen sink. sinks. one meat, one dairy, one neutral.)
I love you. Thank you so much for filling in the gaps in my memory; it's been forever since I've studied any of this. How is "Tanakh" pronounced?
Absolutely -- in fact, as Erin rightly points out, it's a terrific teaching opportunity to lay out the different terms and why naming them can be a big deal.Exactly. That's why I'm trying to make sure I have all of this straight before we even start having the conversation. One of the things I take the most pride in as a teacher is researching the heck out of anything I'm about to teach so that I am able to answer questions about all of the above.
How is "Tanakh" pronounced? Teh-NAHK?
Very close, except that the "kh" at the end is that lovely "I'm globbing something up in my throat" sound. Which a lot of English-speakers have trouble with, so if you can't do it, don't worry.
Oh I can do the globby sound. I worked at a Jewish private school for a year. And I actually do have a pretty solid understanding of the basics of Judaism and most of the holidays as a result. I just somehow managed to miss the whole Torah/Tanakh distinction. The kids all just used "Bible" for the most part.
I feel much better now.
I went to Southern Baptist Churches as a kid and at one point I was going there and to an Episcopal elementary school, that was interesting. I was taught that Catholics weren't true Christians (a couple of the churches had Chick Tracts out for the taking, if you want an idea of their theology).
The only thing I can remember specifically said about Catholics, was that all of the praying to saints and to Mary was wrong and also going to confession was wrong. Baptists, but especially Southern Baptists, but a big emphasis on a personal relationship with God and that once you are saved you have a direct relationship with God without any sort of middleman (with the SBCs seeing confession, saints, and Mary as some kind of middleman) and only God can forgive your sins and only you can ask for forgiveness of your sins. They didn't have a problem with preachers baptizing people because the baptism is more of a symbolic act (although I was told everyone should be baptized) and not really a requirement for being saved.