I still can't believe Rudy Giuliani is the Republican frontrunner. (Yes, that is related to the current conversation.)

I think that's an incredibly naïve motivation for a high risk decision.

I agree. I do think it's psychologically similar to a gambler who over the course of hours blows a fortune, all the while thinking he can win back what he lost.

Where should the Dems stand? Either sexual indiscretions (involving adults) are proper grist for official action, or they're not.

If it had been a drug bust and he'd legislated against something drug-related, then I'd say go at him. The fact that it's sex doesn't affect my opinion one bit. Go after anyone on similar hypocrisy charges--and note, I'm not even saying lying. I'm saying hypocrisy.

I guess the people after Clinton could spin it as hypocrisy on his part--I just think it's a much muddier argument than this one.

I still can't believe Rudy Giuliani is the Republican frontrunner.

Yeah. I think the more publicity he gets, the more people will realize what a bad president he'd make.

The thing is, having a personal life at odds with your political position is not a firable/resignable offense-- it's a reason for voting against someone

Something that doesn't get said often enough.

Where should the Dems stand? Either sexual indiscretions (involving adults) are proper grist for official action, or they're not.

If it had been a drug bust and he'd legislated against something drug-related, then I'd say go at him. The fact that it's sex doesn't affect my opinion one bit. Go after anyone on similar hypocrisy charges--and note, I'm not even saying lying. I'm saying hypocrisy.

Again, though, contrasted with Vitter, not illegal.

Vitter should be out. Marion Barry should be out. Craig and Clinton should be between their consciences and their voters. (And privately, their wives, of course. Is Craig even married? I don't recall hearing one way or another.)

The thing is, having a personal life at odds with your political position is not a firable/resignable offense-- it's a reason for voting against someone

unless you've lied about it, and then it becomes an ethics issue.

Is Craig even married? I don't recall hearing one way or another.)

yes he is

Craig and Clinton should be between their consciences and their voters.

To be clear, I've never said anything differently--I used "shame" as the ultimate consequence of this whole thing (well, or the motivator for resignation), as well as distrust engendered.

Is Craig even married?

Yes. And he has kids. Adopted kids.

He got married in the '80s right around the time rumors were spreading that he was involved with male pages.

x-posty....

eta: Or maybe his wife had kids from a previous relationship. I disremember.

I get you ita, I knew what you meant.

I hold the whole anti-gay element of the right in contempt. People should have voted against Craig on that basis alone. This arrest doesn't change the calculus for me, because being a closeted public person is not, in and of itself, wrong.

unless you've lied about it, and then it becomes an ethics issue.

What ethics issue? Do you mean, Clinton's lying justified the impeachment proceedings, or that Craig lied? (I'm not aware of him doing so.) And even arguendo, I strenuously disagree that the Ethics committee of either house should investigate when someone lies about sex.