I was thinking because Ruby was afraid of angels, that she must not be a high enough level demon to have much power against angels. Also, Dean was guessing the demon in the diner wasn't at a "high enough pay grade" which made me think again of hierarchies among demons.

It's just throwing me a bit that Lilith is apparently the biggest demonic player on the field (raising people from the dead wasn't supposed to be within Azrael's power, but she can manage it), and yet she wasn't able to overwhelm Sam for whatever reason. I kind of wish that moment had been revealed as Castiel's doing rather than something inherent in Sam—like Castiel showed up as Dean was dying, Lilith got caught in the backwash, and it just took 4 months in earth time for them to make the bungie jump into Hell and back.

Also confusing is that Ruby was talking about the power that saved Dean being "cosmic" despite never having met an angel before and Lucifer's apparent status as an unconfirmed religious belief among demons. If there haven't been angels interacting on the lower planes since 1500 years before she died, and no one's seen the Devil in forever either, what else is out there that would fit the "cosmic" label?

I was thinking Castiel meant something more permanent because he was stressing that "our numbers are not unlimited." I don't think he would have even mentioned losing six of his brothers if they could just pop into another body. I could be completely wrong, but I took from his tone that he had experienced an emotional loss too.

I took this the same way. Our Boys have a knife that can kill a demon outright, and I'm sure it's not the only weapon of its kind. If there are ways to destroy a demon, I'm sure there's ways to destroy an angel too.

It's just throwing me a bit that Lilith is apparently the biggest demonic player on the field (raising people from the dead wasn't supposed to be within Azrael's power, but she can manage it), and yet she wasn't able to overwhelm Sam for whatever reason.

I know that there's a lot of brother-against-brother speculation, and I'm not opposed to it. But I don't think I would be surprised that it's Sam who has a larger purpose, and that Dean's presence back on the mortal coil is to influence Sam to prevent him from going darkside.

ION, I've said it before, but other than an errant bra and some casual levels of dress, I still don't seen any evidence that Sam and Ruby are doing the deed, and I don't really count that as evidence.

Wolfram, I was glad they acknowledged that with Meg. At the time that Consuela brought it up, I was thinking that every demon possessed body is already in a sense raped by the demon without ever committing a sexual act. I'm still willing to believe that Sam isn't actually having sex with Kathy/Kristy. That could have been part of the pretense for Dean and Bobby. They haven't acted in any way that would hint at a sexual relationship at any point since that introduction scene. (eta: or what Ailleann said)

I kind of wish that moment had been revealed as Castiel's doing rather than something inherent in Sam—like Castiel showed up as Dean was dying, Lilith got caught in the backwash, and it just took 4 months in earth time for them to make the bungie jump into Hell and back.

That would be way cool. I don't know what Ruby knows or doesn't know, but she was afraid of the word angel. She was ready to run because angels "smite first, ask questions later." Her delivery of the word 'cosmic' threw me. It sounded like valley girl speak for huge.

I wish they had kept God as uncomfirmed as Lucifer had been among the demons, but I guess if the plan is to make Lucifer real, then it's only fair to bring God into play.

We also know the mind is awake and trapped inside the demon's body - unless that was a demon/ghost trick when Meg told Sam that part - hmm, I'm actually not sure, if we know that or not.

No, we know for sure. When Sam was possessed, he was "awake for some of it."

I bet he could torture the heck out of Dean though and not get in trouble.

They should wrestle!

One thing I'll point out about Sam shacking up with Ruby (if that's what is going on); is that it's basically rape. That body who's sleeping with Sam doesn't belong to Ruby, and the girl who owns the body didn't consent to the sex.

From re-watch (and the scene being included in the Previouslies), the moment of recognition in the diner when Sam said "Ruby" was a little bit "of course you're in that body now, too". Or something. It didn't read to me as if he had seen Ruby in that body before, but he wasn't unsurprised.

They really need to make that clear at some point. Surely someone will ask Kripke in one of those TV Guide interviews, right? Because it's kind of important!

The way the first scene played, I like Juliana's interpretation. She really did seem like a random girl, not Ruby-pretending-to-be-a-random-girl.

I agree PC. I mean, why set-up the "cover story" of them shagging if Sam didn't believe that was really Dean? Who else would possibly care?

I mean, why set-up the "cover story" of them shagging if Sam didn't believe that was really Dean?

But she was only on the sidelines of the scene until after Bobby had established that it was really-o truly-o Dean. Her playing the part of a one-night stand is an easy way for her to get out of there without anyone asking questions as to who she is. (Note that she initiated that situation by saying that she should go...)

From re-watch (and the scene being included in the Previouslies), the moment of recognition in the diner when Sam said "Ruby" was a little bit "of course you're in that body now, too". Or something. It didn't read to me as if he had seen Ruby in that body before, but he wasn't unsurprised.

I could buy into that, except that I got the impression Sam had spent his summer vacation time without Dean working with Ruby to develop his demon-dusting mind tricks. If she wasn't in Kathy/Kristy, what body was she in?

Cindy/Sandy, Molly/Holly, Tracy/Teri, etc.