Were the brothers supposed to be 13 and 9 in this ep's flashbacks?
It was Christmas 1991, which would make Sammy 8 and Dean 12, almost 13.
Wash: Were I unwed, I would take you in a manly fashion. Kaylee: 'Cause I'm pretty? Wash: 'Cause you're pretty.
'Heart Of Gold'
Supernatural 1: Saving People, Hunting Things - the Family Business
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Ailleann - Dec 14, 2007 10:09:38 am PST #4991 of 10002
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Beverly - Dec 14, 2007 11:15:04 am PST #4992 of 10002
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.
Okay, do I need to point out the irony here, that if Sam is 8 or 9 in this ep, that the Dean of, "When you were little, you couldn't have been more than five...I just wanted you to stay a kid. Just a little longer." would have been a nine-year-old Dean.
Ailleann - Dec 14, 2007 11:27:53 am PST #4993 of 10002
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Already jaded. At nine. You really are damaged, Dean.
(That was a really jaded 12-year-old, by the way. And also maybe harboring a wee bit of resentment against Sam, who still got to be innocent and not know what really happened to their mom and what is out there in the dark?)
sumi - Dec 14, 2007 11:32:33 am PST #4994 of 10002
Art Crawl!!!
(That was a really jaded 12-year-old, by the way. And also maybe harboring a wee bit of resentment against Sam, who still got to be innocent and not know what really happened to their mom and what is out there in the dark?)
And yet, still doing his best to make sure that Sam believes that their dad came through.
Ailleann - Dec 14, 2007 12:01:21 pm PST #4995 of 10002
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda
And yet, still doing his best to make sure that Sam believes that their dad came through.
::gets misty, yet again::
Micole - Dec 14, 2007 12:06:56 pm PST #4996 of 10002
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.
t handwave
John left an abbreviated version of the journal (loose-leaf: easy to abbreviate) for Dean to study. He wasn't supposed to let Sam know he was looking at it, but he wasn't good enough at hiding the pages in Hot Rod.
t /handwave
Beverly - Dec 14, 2007 12:38:21 pm PST #4997 of 10002
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.
::loves on Micole::
Nutty - Dec 14, 2007 1:25:31 pm PST #4998 of 10002
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."
Because it would have been Dean who paid, of course. First for not keeping an adequate eye on Sam, second for allowing Sam to steal the journal without being detected, and third because John wouldn't yell at his baby boy.
?? We have no canonical evidence that he was ever more punish-y to Dean than to Sam. Expected more out of Dean, yes, since they're considerably different in age. But that's a big leap to blaming the older kid for something the younger kid does.
And whoa do we have evidence that John did and would yell at his baby boy, because they did it to each other in DMB, and it was obvious they were on the nine millionth verse of the same song. (Whereas, he takes it remarkably well when Dean talks back at him angrily, in Salvation.)
P.M. Marc - Dec 14, 2007 1:52:22 pm PST #4999 of 10002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
I tend to think that the only way he'd have punished Dean for that one is if Dean had decided it was a bright idea to cover for Sammy.
Theresa - Dec 14, 2007 2:25:39 pm PST #5000 of 10002
"What would it take to get your daughter to stop tweeting about this?"
The thing that pulled me out was the meta of how Kripke & Co. are so adamant that John Was A Bad Father, and it seemed like John being absent for the Wee!chester Christmas is their way of pointing and going "See! Bad Father!"
I qualify anything I say by first saying I love John. I heart him to pieces. I can't imagine trying to raise, protect, and prepare a small boy and a baby while feeling a duty to fight the things that go bump in the night. I don't think anyone could have done better as it was an impossible situation. That said, I don't know how they could have written him as a good father unless they established babysitters along the way. But I think that would have diminished the character of John as a dark and brooding loner that was damaged himself. They had to establish his obsession and, I assume, sense of duty to saving the world because he killed other evil things that he crossed while hunting the demon that killed Mary. And babysitters would have probably notified social services because of the moving around and weaponry at hand. There would have been very few people he could trust if he wanted to retain access to his sons at all. So I think in a perfect world, he would have been a bad father. But I don't think we can judge good or bad parenting by our standards outside of the SPN universe.
At least that is how I can justify saying, "Bad John, you hurt your boys", but still believing he acted in (what he believed was) their best interest.
(I'd really love to see the confrontation between Sam and John.)
If only this were possible, it would have been awesome! Completely worth the price of admission.
Yeah, from watching Mutant Enemy shows one would conclude that Roger Burkle was the only father in human history who was both present and caring.
And Fred loved him like pancakes. ::sniff::
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