Now hold on, I'm gonna press the right pedal harder. I expect us to accelerate.

Anya ,'Showtime'


Supernatural 1: Saving People, Hunting Things - the Family Business  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though -- if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Theresa - Sep 05, 2007 12:13:01 am PDT #2097 of 10002
"What would it take to get your daughter to stop tweeting about this?"

I should have added that we can hypothetically propose infinite outcomes with educated guesses of some of the character traits that we have seen in canon. It doesn't mean that we can give any more weight to the possible outcomes the boys would have turned out given a more normal upbringing. There are too many variables and it really is speculation that becomes a type of fan fiction.

That said, I find Dean to be prettier than your average guy. Assuming that society treated him as better than average looking people are treated, I am betting that Dean's charm would always be reinforced and that most of his possible outcomes involved a talent for manipulating people to his advantage. That's not a moral judgment; we all do it to some extent. Dean would always have been able to talk people into things and make them like him more often than not. This may have meant extra attention from teachers (unconsciously) and easier advancement in work. However, only to a point, which I will explain later. Getting along with people and coordination would have made sense for him to be a member of the baseball team or involved in some athletics in high school. He likes to perform and is good at improv, becoming his different identities of federal marshal for example, and could have even succeeded in his high school theater department.

One of the constrictions of his potential, on the other hand, was a limitation of the skills necessary for continued success in academia. Dean can visualize how to put together a car and take it apart. He can build an EMF device from a walkman. But he is working with the three dimensional pieces and not figuring the mathematical equations behind his activity. We never once see him sketch out his plans or figure the theory behind his gadgets. He obviously has a mechanical aptitude, but science, physics, mathematics? Too theoretical for the way his brain works. Dean could have been an engineer if he had been able to skip the university courses necessary for the degree and just do the actual work. Also, Dean's lack of literary interest, beyond the necessary research for demons, would have self corrected itself if the potential was there, with all the years since Mary's death. I don't believe language arts was part of his inherent potential.

Dean's potential was always going to be a blue collar worker under the best of conditions. Excluding Mary and John hiring a private tutor to work with him every day. Dean is hands on, street smart, not the other kind. Thank goodness, because he probably is alive because of it in his current reality. In a closer to perfect reality, he could have made an honest living and a comfortable one at that.

Now my interpretation of Dean's character is no more accurate than anyone else in the hypothetical scenario of a stable upbringing. We just don't know what butterfly effect would have influenced the outcome. However, I do think, given certain constrictions of Dean's potential, it is possible to make educated guesses with some clues from the past two seasons. Dean isn't a scholar and more than likely never would be one without extremely extenuating circumstances.

Sam on the other hand, was naturally quick in the way that is measured in school. No matter what was going on in his personal life, the academic road was easier for him. He would have been white collar, and the only thing keeping him from that life is, as others have said, love and family and loyalty. He isn't quite as pretty as his brother (and often hears how wonderful his brother is) although, Sam is absolutely adorable by real world standards. He would always have had to put more effort into success than Dean no matter what the outside environment. His drive and commitment therefore are probably part of the inherent component of his character. Being the second born, I agree that he would be trying to catch up to his older brother Dean. Whether that was a friendly rivalry or one of resentment would depend on too many variables. I see Sam as Richie Cunningham and Dean is the (continued...)


Theresa - Sep 05, 2007 12:13:04 am PDT #2098 of 10002
"What would it take to get your daughter to stop tweeting about this?"

( continues...) older brother, Chuck even in the idyllic upbringing of Happy Days sitcom. Both likeable and loved, but definitely with different strengths and weaknesses.

Well, and love. Love of family, which is more than loyalty. Which they would have learned even in the best circumstances: the way they did grow up, they learned the price you pay for that loyalty. And chose to keep paying it rather than reject the love.

Love is the constant. The, for lack of better word, “goodness” of the boys as human beings shine through even in the current world that didn’t treat them very well. Dean may hustle for money, but he is doing it for the greater good. Neither boy has been shown to be malicious or mean spirited or intentionally hurting anyone that wasn’t a threat to society. If this is the case in the current reality, I would assume, a more stable home life would have only enhanced these traits. I think deep down, in Dean’s wishverse, even he knew that Sam would always be standing by him. Which is why Dean’s construct of Sam got in the car even when Not!Sam thought Dean was crazy. Strength of character, I really would doubt to be a lacking for either of the Winchester brothers even with a tragedy timed later in life.


Toddson - Sep 05, 2007 4:50:26 am PDT #2099 of 10002
Friends don't let friends read "Atlas Shrugged"

having an image of Dean - in an alternate universe - as a car salesman ... a good one


Beverly - Sep 05, 2007 7:42:18 am PDT #2100 of 10002
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

Thank you, Austin! I love the simplicity of your rubber band theory as a way of explaining possibilities.

I had no expectations here of being given some concrete picture of Dean and Sam in an AU where catastrophe was avoided or delayed, I just wanted to hear ideas about who they might have become. As an adoptee, I find the whole "nature vs. nurture" debate of great interest, especially since having had children myself.

I've also read some meta and fic that suggest either, A. the brothers were blighted by the catastrophe in their lives, or B. the brothers' characters were forged in the fires of that event. The truth, as always, lies somewhere between. But I'm always interested in the road not taken.


P.M. Marc - Sep 05, 2007 7:50:49 am PDT #2101 of 10002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I'm curious if Dean is naturally kind of off kilter when it comes to social skills, or if it's just due to upbringing, or some of both.

I suspect he's wired in such a way that he'd always be a little out of the norm, but that he'd fake it better in an alternate world. (And, actually, that he's the age and personality type that would fall into tech fairly naturally, had he grown up with computers around.)


juliana - Sep 05, 2007 7:52:07 am PDT #2102 of 10002
I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I miss them all tonight…

I'm curious if Dean is naturally kind of off kilter when it comes to social skills, or if it's just due to upbringing, or some of both.

I also wonder how much of that is JA's natural social awkwardness, too.


P.M. Marc - Sep 05, 2007 7:59:00 am PDT #2103 of 10002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I also wonder how much of that is JA's natural social awkwardness, too.

Probably not much, based on Smallville and Dark Angel.


Beverly - Sep 05, 2007 8:28:03 am PDT #2104 of 10002
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

I think the social awkwardness is misperceived, actually. He seems as poised, and articulate in interviews and at PR events as any other "celebrity." Not to say it's the favorite part of his job, but he seems fairly gracious about it. It seems to be the random on-the-street meet he's wary of, and with good reason.


Cass - Sep 05, 2007 7:50:28 pm PDT #2105 of 10002
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.

I suspect he's wired in such a way that he'd always be a little out of the norm, but that he'd fake it better in an alternate world. (And, actually, that he's the age and personality type that would fall into tech fairly naturally, had he grown up with computers around.)
I wonder what his user name here would be...

Actually I really can't picture Dean without the Demon. So much of who Dean is, is wrapped up in that to me. Even in the pilot flashbacks because the writers knew exactly where they were about to go. Now I have to think about this more.


sumi - Sep 06, 2007 4:36:28 am PDT #2106 of 10002
Art Crawl!!!

Promo pictures for the season 2 premiere!!!!

If you click you will be spoiled for the KICKASS title of the episode.

Although, I didn't find the pictures themselves that spoilery.