I'd add the first Survivor and Big Brother to the list, but yeah - not much reality in Reality

It really was just a whole new, amazing thing. And I'm sure they did just as much sculpting of the story back then as they do today, but everyone on the show just seemed so completely . . . authentic, no? Not playing a type or playing to the cameras. I mean, you had Andre on who basically didn't do anything for the entire season and Norman who was the lowest key dude in creation. And people like them would never even make it past the first round of casting these days. And the things that happened to them just were an outgrowth of how they were actually living and when they fought it seemed organic and just yeah. I loved that show so, so much, but then it was all fouled up by the very next season and everyone in the LA cast except for maybe Irene just seemed so aware that they were on TV and so eager to play their assigned role. And then SF brought us Puck and it was all downhill from there. Sigh. I miss that first NYC Real World season.

But as far as competition reality shows, I've never thought there was very much real about them. I mean, I grew up with Star Search and that show makes AI look like a paragon of virtue. To this day, I don't actually know how the scoring process worked. I do know that the acting category was the most consistently ridiculous. That was the time to go get your ice cream, I'll tell you what.

I loved that show so, so much, but then it was all fouled up by the very next season and everyone in the LA cast except for maybe Irene just seemed so aware that they were on TV and so eager to play their assigned role. And then SF brought us Puck and it was all downhill from there.

Wow, you have a good memory. I'd forgotten all about Irene.

Wasn't there a big to-do with the Seattle cast, too? That was an early season?

Oh, but I do agree that the first season of Survivor seemed like a totally new and awesome thing in the universe and not producer manipulated at all because nobody could've invented someone like Hatch in a million years and they didn't know enough about how the contestants would react to the environment to manipulate through their choice of challenges, tribe creation, etc. That was a great TV experience.

San Francisco also brought us Pedro which, for me, more than made up for Puck.

nobody could've invented someone like Hatch in a million years

It's not free streaming, and my kid is so upset. She's become a Survivor junkie, and she wants to watch that season so much.

I would love to rewatch it, actually. Everything was so different! They were allowed to bring so much stuff, for one.

The Seattle cast was season 7 and yes I do know waaayyy too much about The Real World through probably about Miami! The big to-do was Stephen slapping Irene (not LA Irene, another Irene)as Irene was moving out (because of a relapse of Lyme Disease, what? Oh, old school Real World. So random!). He didn't get kicked out of the house either, which was amazing considering David got kicked out in Season 2 for pulling a blanket off of Tami while she was in bed (pretty much fully clothed, I might add, although later on she claimed she was naked) and Puck got kicked out in Season 3 basically for being obnoxious and hard to live with (and putting his snotty fingers in people's peanut butter).

Oh, that's the Irene I'm remembering! That whole slapping thing was bizarre.

That's partly why I like TAR - there's not a lot of producer interference possible in that format. (I assume personalities are more or less manufactured, but the order teams arrive at the mat is due to competence and luck, not to network manipulation.)

He ran up to her car and slapped her. Am I remembering right. I used to be a Real World addict - probably about through Miami. Isn't that when they started the whole give them a job/project thing?