Just to be clear -- it's not the number of kids that freak me out about the Duggars, it's the specific freakiness of the quiverful movement. It's one thing to have a lot of kids because you love being a parent, it's another to literally believe that an empty uterus makes the baby Jesus cry. That the whole value of a woman is how many little Christian soldiers she can produce. Makes my skin crawl.

...and my imagination turns to wonder the pressure they'll put on the daughters to start having children...

Right now, the oldest daughters are too busy being surrogate moms for their younger siblings.

And some will have children only over their dead bodies.

Yes, the eldest of my SIL's 6 kids claims she will never get married or have children. She already raised 5 of them. Her mother and others think she will get over it. I don't think so. She is 30 now and never lets a relationship get serious.

I don't think the Duggers are ignorant. The father is an elected representative and they seem educated and pretty decent people. They are very religious but they don't seem to think that everyone needs to live like they do.

Can't really say anything about their obsession with J's considering my own with O's.

I secretly wonder how they deal with their children if the kids question their lifestyle and profess a desire to cut their hair (girls) or wear clothes that don't match.

The older kids have experience in growing up in a very large family. So I can see them going one of two ways. Some will probably embrace the idea and try for large families of their own. (But will they be able to support large families?) And some will have children only over their dead bodies.

My Dad is one of eight. They all opted for two or three.

Everyone gets along and they spend a lot of time with their siblings, but my Grandparents sacrificed a lot to have that brood and I don't think that appealed to any of their children (one it might have, but he and his wife (one of 7 herself) started too late to get out more than the two that they did).

That the whole value of a woman is how many little Christian soldiers she can produce.

And I ask this with genuine curiosity: What's the value of the men in the movement?

I have business friends that are both doctors and they have 8 children. They seem totally sane and the children that I have met were delightful humans. They have no money issues. Pretty sure she had them all considering their looks and spacing. The mom is tiny too, damn it.

Oh, the tater-tot casserole or whatever makes me want to heave, though.

Happy Birthday, Deena!

Bev, yay for nothingness!

My folks were both one of 12 kids. They were poor, ignorant hillbillies without access to birth control. My maternal grandmother was 15 when my grandfather (aged 25) married her. That sort of skeeves me but they were married for over 59 years and they apparently loved each other very much.

Happy Birthday, Deena!

That's all I got right now.

And I ask this with genuine curiosity: What's the value of the men in the movement?

With the same caveat of not knowing to what degree the Duggars fit into this theological scheme, in general the idea is that a married man as head of the household is sort of the face of the family to the outside world, with the wife and children supporting his "mission"--be that a business, a ministry, or whatever.

ETA some of the family-oriented dominionist websites I like to look at when I need to feel amazed:

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UPS just arrived. The notes that they left said they couldn't leave my package because it required a signature, but the UPS guy just ran off after giving me my package and said he didn't need a signature. Oh, well at least the gift I bought is here now and I can shower and do errands before dinner.