Eh. I was not impressed. I still don't like Owen and I still don't like Gwen. How fucking cowardly and pathetic is it to confess, then give someone an amnesia pill. If he was really going to forgive her, he wouldn't have needed it, I think. she had clearly planned it, it's not even like she thought "I'll confess, and if it goes badly, I'll drug him". She never intended Rhys to really know.

She never intended Rhys to really know.

That's why it's brilliant. She knew he'd be hurt and angry. She wanted the catharsis of confessing without having to deal with the consequences. I mean, I totally agree that it makes her less likeable. But to me, it makes her more interesting.

Why does that make her interesting? To me, it just makes her manipulative and cowardly.

Because manipulative and cowardly doesn't preclude interesting? *g*

I think it's because at the beginning of the series, she was the outsider. She's the POV character for the audience, the one who was horrified at the existence of Retcon, the fact that Torchwood keeps bodies of employees in its morgue, at every new terrible thing we learned about Torchwood. And now Torchwood has corrupted her. I think Torchwood has also done good things for her, and you can't argue that they haven't saved the world a few times, but you also see the cost.

I also think that structurally, it's a great scene. Well written and acted, with that beautiful turn of HSQ at the end.

To me, it just makes her manipulative and cowardly.

It's been a while since I saw the scene, and yet I remember it clearly. It was brilliant. Yes manipulative and cowardly in the extreme, and it was very much in character. It reminded me that often the closest loved ones bring out the worst qualities in people along with the best. The scene was repulsive and made me want to slap her hard, and yet I pitied her. Awesome.

Scifi is running some sort of behind the scenes of their new Wizard of Oz mini-series in about 13 minutes.

Last Razor flashback all very Battle of New Orleans y.

The scene was repulsive and made me want to slap her hard, and yet I pitied her.

I didn't. She just disgusted me. It was weak and pathetic. It was very well done, but all I wanted to do was slap her. Which I'm not sure was their goal.

The Tin Man really looks like fun.

(I have to admit that I haven't re-watched the Torchwood episode - my memories of it are vague and unenthusiastic.)

That's why it's brilliant. She knew he'd be hurt and angry. She wanted the catharsis of confessing without having to deal with the consequences. I mean, I totally agree that it makes her less likeable. But to me, it makes her more interesting.

Me too.

Upon rewatching the series, I was struck by the scene in the first episode where Gwen pleads with Rhys for forgiveness in a sort of jokey way, taking the piss; it's funny and affectionate, and when you know what's going to happen between them after she's been at Torchwood for a while, it's oddly shocking, because it's a mirror of that later scene. (Or perhaps rather the later scene mirrors that initial one - I don't know whether they'd planned their story arc before writing episode 1.)