I definitely come down firmly on the date rape side of the issue, but I do think it depends on how you see the effects of the drug. If you think, as I do, that the effect was to render the woman and her boyfriend incapable of making their own decision about whether or not to sleep with Owen, essentially rendering them unable to give or refuse consent, then you're likely to think of it as rape. If you think the drug's effect was less about overriding their ability to give consent and more about amplifying their susceptibility to Owen's, er, charms, then you're more likely to think of it as seduction.

That's a good distinction, Kate. The problem, of course, is that it's a slippery slope -- At what point does "amplifying susceptibility" become "removing all free will"? It's tricky enough when you're dealing with alcohol; when you're talking magical alien technology, it's almost impossible to say.

If you think the drug's effect was less about overriding their ability to give consent and more about amplifying their susceptibility to Owen's, er, charms, then you're more likely to think of it as seduction.

true. It would be different if she was waffling, or seemed to be into Owen at all. She basically told him to sod off. I also had a huge problem with him spraying the guy. He's not necessarily bi (and franky, it's not likely), so I think that this would be a huge deal for him. Now, if they had some handwavium that the spray couldn't make you do what you didn't want to do, but that it amplified Owen's charms, I'd feel better about it.

Now, if they had some handwavium that the spray couldn't make you do what you didn't want to do, but that it amplified Owen's charms, I'd feel better about it.

I think the writers probably felt that this handwavium was implied, but personally I would have liked it to have been explicit.

I think the writers probably felt that this handwavium was implied, but personally I would have liked it to have been explicit.

Yeah, it seems pretty clear that the show didn't intend this to be a big stumbling block, whereas the reactions from fandom that I saw were generally disgust and horror.

I think the writers probably felt that this handwavium was implied, but personally I would have liked it to have been explicit.

except that she told him to go away at the bar, she wasn't into him at all. In fact, I seem to recall that when she blew him off, he got impatient and just sprayed her.

The problem, of course, is that it's a slippery slope -- At what point does "amplifying susceptibility" become "removing all free will"?

Right, of course, those lines are very blurry. I definitely think the drug had the effect of removing their free will; it seems clear that neither the woman nor her boyfriend had any attraction to him before they got a whiff of the spray, so I didn't see it as taking advantage of a slight pre-existing attraction but as manufacturing one whole-cloth.

I also had a huge problem with him spraying the guy. He's not necessarily bi (and franky, it's not likely)

Well, and I generally agree with you and take your point, but in the Torchwood universe, isn't everyone bi??

Oh, I agree with you, Vortex. When I first saw the episode, I was horrified. And I am still pretty horrified, because I do think that the writers (it was Rusty, right?) intended Owen to be skanky, but not a rapist. I'm pretty sure that scene was supposed to played for laughs.

It's the kind of thing that makes me want to hit someone with the hammer of feminist rage and then ask sweetly, "Clearly you don't live in a universe where rape is a constant threat and not funny ha ha. Don't make me hit you again."

OMG, people. Owen is a creepy rapist fuckwit and a selfish repulsive troll who should have been eaten by mountain bears, like, yesterday. (They have mountain bears in Wales, right?) The woman in the bar in the pilot expressed no interest in Owen at all. As a matter of fact, she was actively skeeved off by him. There was no "magnification of attraction" whatsoever. Regardless of the method of delivery, he took away her ability to consent with that drug, and that's rape in my book. I've never quite gotten over the show's cavalier dismassal of the magnitude of his offense.

And in the second episode, Owen voluntarily goes into the jail cell holding a woman who can kill people with sexin', hoping for some jollies. And the show treats this stupidity as A JOKE.

No, I don't feel that strongly about the character. Why do you ask? (Seriously, I don't talk about TW much here because I know a lot of people here love it and I don't believe in harshing people's squee, but Owen? RAPIST.)

t /end rant

Owen voluntarily goes into the jail cell holding a woman who can kill people with sexin', hoping for some jollies.

Mmm. I didn't get that impression. I thought she had some kind of pheremone thing going, given that Gwen also spontaneously starts making out with her. Though it's not one of my favorite episodes, so I can't say for sure.