Some thoughts on Thursday's ep of SPN:

Over on some other boards, there has been some discussion about whether or not Dean might consider some sort of deal to bring Sam back. The general thought seems to be that this would be going against everything we've seen Dean go through this season, what with his feelings about what his dad did in order to bring him back from death's doorstep at the beginning of the season, his statements about "what's dead should stay dead" in CSPwDT, his thoughts about people who make deals with the devil (Crossroad Blues), etc. Plus, there's the fact the season began with one Winchester making a deal for the life of another family member, and so it seems like too much of a retread.

I have no idea whether or not Dean will make a deal to bring back Sammy, but the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe that it would be in character for him to consider it at the very least.

In some ways, events this season have been moving Dean into a position similar to his father's at the end of last season/beginning of this season. From all the way back as far as "Home," we know that John had probably been living under the burden of the "kill Sam or save him" knowledge for quite some time. Plus, he spent approximately half of his life hunting things, and when we saw him in S1, he came across to me as being exhausted, and perhaps almost relieved at the idea of not having to do this any more.

As for Dean, we've seen how the knowledge of what he may have to do to Sam has been weighing on him, and last week's episode showed us that Dean is in many ways ready to lay down this burden and get some rest already. From the very beginning, when John told him to get his brother out of the burning house, Dean's life has been about keeping Sam safe (much as John's life was about finding the thing that had hurt his family and was still an active threat to at least one of his boys). In this last episode, we even had each brother separately bring up the notion that Dean's purpose is to look after Sam.

So now, even if he doesn't make some sort of deal (or try to), I think that given his mental state as shown in "What Is..." and being faced with losing Sam, Dean will have a much deeper understanding of why John did what he did at the beginning of the season. So, if there's a deal, it will (to me, anyhow) be a very appropriate bookend to IMToD, and not a mere retread.

Re: Supernatural

The general thought seems to be that this would be going against everything we've seen Dean go through this season, what with his feelings about what his dad did in order to bring him back from death's doorstep at the beginning of the season, his statements about "what's dead should stay dead" in CSPwDT, his thoughts about people who make deals with the devil (Crossroad Blues), etc.

But we've also seen that Dean doesn't believe that the same 'moral rules' or 'guiding principles' or whatever you want to call them, apply to his family. He's stated outright that he's frightened himself with the extent of how far he's willing to go and how easily he's willing to kill to protect his family. So I would accept the thought of him making a deal to bring Sam back.

Assuming that such an event were to happen, however, I'm thinking the weight of the guilt and responsiblity would be crushing to Sam. He's already carrying the guilt and responsiblity for the deaths of his mother and Jess, regardless of how many times Dean and his dad may have told him it wasn't his fault. Now the YED specifically stated that they were killed because of him. (Yeah, Mary was killed because she came into the room at the wrong time... because he was there to perform some sort of ritual on Sam.) We all know that demons lie, but I doubt that's what Sam would be keeping uppermost in his mind, especially if he then has the weight of Dean's sacrifice added to it.

So, what sort of resolution would both Sam and Dean find acceptable? If Dean's willing to bargain, but Sam's not, and if Sam isn't any more willing to live with his life being bought by another's sacrifice than Dean was in the beginning of the season, what options does that leave?

Does Dean take on the devil and force him to rewind recent history? Does he make good on his promise and march into hell to kill every demon he can find, and bring back his brother, and maybe his dad too?

I'm up for speculation on the way peeps think it will play out in AHBL2, given that resolution is unlikely since there needs to be something to hunt in S3.

In some print interview some months back, Kripke said that the John-in-hell, YED situation would be resolved in S2, and that the brothers would find other things to fight in future seasons. I don't know if that projection has changed or not, but it sounded like a definite plan, at least at that time. And no, I'm sorry, I don't have a cite.

He's stated outright that he's frightened himself with the extent of how far he's willing to go and how easily he's willing to kill to protect his family. So I would accept the thought of him making a deal to bring Sam back.

Ooh. Good point. I'd forgotten that.

So, what sort of resolution would both Sam and Dean find acceptable? If Dean's willing to bargain, but Sam's not, and if Sam isn't any more willing to live with his life being bought by another's sacrifice than Dean was in the beginning of the season, what options does that leave?

Excellent question. Another thing that's been running through my mind is that they've had dealings with a trickster this season, one that played on people's on venality to bring them to ruin. Maybe Dean (with help from Bobby, of course) will be desperate/crazy enough to try to trick or outwit the YED in some way--preferably by using its own nature, plans, pride, etc. against it. That could work, and would be narratively satisfying as well.

In some print interview some months back, Kripke said that the John-in-hell, YED situation would be resolved in S2, and that the brothers would find other things to fight in future seasons.

This is a relief to me, from a storytelling point of view. I was worried that by bringing in the big guns, so to speak, at the end of this season -- the YED talking about an army of demons coming to fight or take over mankind or whatever his Evil Plan of Doom is -- there was nowhere left to go. (Short of Sam & Dean gearing up and actually marching through Hell, that is.) Because after an apocalyptic battle, are they supposed to go back to the potergeist/haunted house/wendigo of the week?

Morgana, I've been meaning to ask you--are you on LJ? And do you mind sharing your LJ name? I'm arliss there.

I kind of miss wendigo of the week, actually. I look back at S1 and find it charmingly naive. Sort of. And I miss the saltslingers riding in to chase the bad spooks away and save the townsfolk.

Beverly, insent.

If Dean's willing to bargain, but Sam's not

...Kinda where John was with Dean in the season opener, no? If Dean had known about that bargain in advance, he would have nixed it, or at least had a hissy fit over it. With Sam pining for the fjords, he has no say in what Dean does.

Weirdly enough, this means that for once Dean is in charge of the Winchester Family Circus -- not just the one making the decisions, but any steps he takes to get Sam back are really What Dean Wants. Like, I'm sure Sam, if polled, would prefer to live at this point; but Dean's the one who has everything invested in Sam's safety, and he's liable to go do something dramatic to get what he wants.

Which, we've seen Sam as unilateral bossypants, and John is the original die from which all future bossypants are struck, but seeing Dean step into those pants will be... interesting.

and if Sam isn't any more willing to live with his life being bought by another's sacrifice than Dean was in the beginning of the season, what options does that leave?

This presumes Dean actually cares what Sam would or wouldn't want him to do. I mentioned in someone's journal the other day: wow, wasn't the demon stupid! If he'd picked Dean as his general instead, with Dean's flexible ethics and single-minded attachment/weak point, he'd have a real weapon on his hands.

(And while I think it might be cool for such a switcheroo to occur in canon, I think it would also be an incredible WTF and unsuitable for the storyline.)

Beverly -- I opened a LJ account (morgana_st) so I could comment on all the SPN fanfiction I found myself devouring. I'm still kind of fumbling my way around there, so I don't have a LJ page set up yet, and I don't have the profile all filled out. That's all on my "to be done eventually" list. Right after "write more cover letters and send out more resumes, dammit!" But what I do need to do soon is friend all the Buffistas who've revealed their LJ names.

Morgana, I'm sophiap over in LJ land (it's based on my nom de fic).