Oh, that sounds miserable. I'm so sorry.

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Cash, I had chicken pox at age 17 that verged on shingles, and soaking in epson salts helped me. Might be worth a try?

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GC, I think that gets a lot closer. A couple of things:

• You may touch on this already, but I think it's probably important to deal with subscription databases in some way. While Google is probably insufficient even for undergraduate work in most fields, access quality subscription databases, which are usually available remotely for academic users, may be enough for graduate or other researchers, especially in scientific fields. This doesn't negate at all the need for libraries or librarians (as some unfortunate outcomes of insufficiently researched medical studies have shown), but

may negate the need for a library as a place in this context for some researchers. In terms of organization, databases vary a lot depending on subject area and content provider. Some provide the equivalent of browsing, but many do not.

• I would probably include some different examples of those for whom browsing in a library as a place is likely continue to be more important in the foreseeable future. While doctors and lawyers certainly shouldn't be relying on Google, they are two groups that rely extensively on (very expensive) databases that can often be accessed remotely. The medical field especially has focused on making journals and books alike available in electronic format, a great boon to clinicians without easy access to a medical library. Even if you aren't focusing on database users, I think that using those examples without including others may dilute your arguement as stated. My understanding is that the groups who are most likely to remain on-site users of the library are students and researchers in the humanities and social sciences. They are more likely to need materials that are not digitized and to use citation-only or citation-and-abstract databases rather than full text ones.

This may sound like I am sounding a death-knell for libraries. I certainly don't intend that. Neither do I mean to minimize at all the very real need for quality cataloging. Academic and research libraries with forward-thinking management are thriving, and I think that they will continue to do so. I think that public libraries will continue to thrive as well, although they face somewhat different issues. But I think that in order to thrive, successful libraries have shown an eagerness to embrace new ways of reaching their users, making more materials and services available remotely. Likewise, they have drawn users to their physical locations by adding new or expanded services on-site. It's a hard balance, determining what to add, and more importantly what can be taken away since there's almost never funding, time or space to have it all (drat!).

Three final things. First is that I may totally be misreading your arguments, especially since I haven't read your whole paper nor the whole speech it's based on. If so, please accept my apologies and feel free to disregard any or all that I've written here. Second is that I hope I haven't been talking down to you at all. That is certainly not my intent, and if it sounds that way it's just because I don't have a good feel for your background and I get passionate about this subject. Third and final is a heartfelt thank you!! I've been getting kind of burnt out at work, and have thoroughly enjoying thinking theoretically on such an important issue. It's been reinvorgating for me. I hope it's also helpful for you!!

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Cash, when I had shingles eons ago, Aveeno baths (the oatmeal kind) really seemed to help a lot. I'm sorry you're going through this--it's seventy kinds of no fun.

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No advice Cash, but I'm very sympathetic and impressed about how not obnoxious you've been about the doctor fiasco. I hope you feel better and that this goes away quickly.

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libkitty, I have absolutely appreciated your feedback. Not at all talking down. Input is always appreciated and valued!

My main point is having to do with Google search vs. traditional cataloging (which is being done in a way on any Web site that has implemented good search functionality). I agree with your points on remotely accessing materials and I think online is certainly wonderful. I'm also including stuff about how private businesses are putting a lot of money into doing faceting and hierarchies on the Web and in internal databases that come directly out of library science. Ironic that the private sector is adopting library practices that Marcum seems to want to relinquish to Google.

Totally cool conversation!!!

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And, feel better, Cash!

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I'm also including stuff about how private businesses are putting a lot of money into doing faceting and hierarchies on the Web

Great! I think this is important stuff and should help your paper a lot.

Ironic that the private sector is adopting library practices that Marcum seems to want to relinquish to Google.

Much of what has been done with private sector search and retrieval was done first in the library community, but they've done it with more money and more advertising. Actually, this just emphasizes for me the importance of marketing in just about every field, including libraries. Unfortunately, that's also really depressing for me, because I don't much like marketing. I think a lot of people went into libraries to avoid marketing, and it's come back to bite us. So we do it, and some do a great job, but so many do it with no money and no training and no aptitude.

Not at all talking down.

Whew. I can be bad with this sometimes, but it's not on purpose!

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Yep, Aveeno oatmeal bath was the other thing I was going to suggest. Mostly, though, I just hope you feel better.

In Bitchly news, I'm having a good hair day, which makes me happy. Alas, I also have a nasty headache. ND just ran into Guitar Center, and I opted to stay outside to avoid the noise...and then they cranked up the outdoor speakers. Evil bastards. I shall beat them with their bad rap beats.

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Sunil Dislocates His Shoulder III: This Time, It's Personal.

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