Hey, preaching to the choir. I thought our Lady of the Perpetual Sea Breeze was the real deal until the Divine Miss J walked right through that door and right into my ass—which is where my heart is…physiologically. I could show you an x-ray.

Lorne ,'Time Bomb'


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Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.


Miracleman - Jun 17, 2004 11:15:24 am PDT #3971 of 10000
No, I don't think I will - me, quoting Captain Steve Rogers, to all of 2020

Bruce wasn't Batman after Bane snapped him like a wee little twigman. And it's precisely because of the myth that Jean-Paul took over -- Bruce asked him to, because there needed to be a Batman.

Bruce also wasn't Batman after defeating Bane. He went off to get his head on straight, and Dick took over.

But I think those instances reinforce the point...the absences that highlight the icon of Bruce as Batman. It was never really a doubt in anyone's mind that, someday, Bruce would be back in the cowl. He *had* to. Azbats and Dick-as-Bats were just...taunting us. Whetting our appetite for when the Real Bat Deal came back to do that voodoo that he do so well.

Same thing with Supes and his "death". We all knew, deep down, that Clark would return. The whole "Who is the Real Superman?" was just entertaining filler to build up to Clark's resurrection and reassumption of the shield. Because Clark *is* Superman in a way that can't be denied. The Once and Future Superman. Other people can wear the S and take the name, but they're *not* Superman.

I'm slightly incoherent, I think.

The reverse of that is the Flash and GL legacies. I believe, though this may not be at all true, that there is a permanent edict at DC Comics. Barry Allen is *dead*. No coming back, not for real. He died a hero and to bring him back would weaken the impact of that sacrifice. But the Flash legacy lives on. It's not important that *Barry* be the Flash...but it is important that there *is* a Flash.

Same with GL, though not as strongly IMHO. There are Hal Jordan supporters out there who cry that Hal *is* GL now and forevermore and that nobody else should bear that mantle. But before Kyle Rayner there was John Stewart. After Stewart was Guy Gardner. They may not have been as beloved as Hal had become, but the really important thing was that there *was* a Green Lantern.

I hope some of this make sense.


Michele T. - Jun 17, 2004 11:16:33 am PDT #3972 of 10000
with a gleam in my eye, and an almost airtight alibi

The only error info I get is "Tried to position to before start of file." Will try on the Windows box at home.

On topic -- does Dinah know who Nightwing is? Because Ollie does, and I don't imagine him being the soul of discretion, yet there's no evidence she does, besides having a phone number for him, which doesn't necessarily mean anything.


amych - Jun 17, 2004 11:19:57 am PDT #3973 of 10000
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

I hope some of this make sense.

It does -- and certainly, the GL mythos is explicitly set up that way. You don't have a lone survivor or a freaky guy in unique circumstances -- you have a corps. Flash seems a bit more handwavy -- we have a long history of having successive flashes, and being more or less okay with that, but there isn't a Flash infrastructure supporting the multiples in quite the same way. If that makes any sense. Maybe my nonsense is just responding to your nonsense.

(edit to avoid cereal: I'll go ahead and drop the individual files while I'm still here in the land of happy bandwidth, just in case. Either way, I'm home this evening, so let me know.)


P.M. Marc - Jun 17, 2004 11:20:07 am PDT #3974 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

It makes total sense, MM.

Because the Flash and Green Lantern are the titles, where Batman and Superman (and, to an extent, Green Arrow) are the men.

I mean, there are hints that Batman will outlive Bruce, that what he's created will become more than just him, but that's future.


Steph L. - Jun 17, 2004 11:23:24 am PDT #3975 of 10000
I look more rad than Lutheranism

I mean, there are hints that Batman will outlive Bruce, that what he's created will become more than just him, but that's future.

I thought he alluded to that in Robin #125.


DXMachina - Jun 17, 2004 11:24:42 am PDT #3976 of 10000
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

Bil, well now I do...


DavidS - Jun 17, 2004 11:27:13 am PDT #3977 of 10000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Bruce wasn't Batman after Bane snapped him like a wee little twigman. And it's precisely because of the myth that Jean-Paul took over -- Bruce asked him to, because there needed to be a Batman. Like the BuffyBot at the beginning of S6.

And also, that was the compelling argument that had Bruce accepting a new Robin - that the myth required it.

Bruce is (self? meta?) conscious of Batman's mythic impact and necessity, and the writers have toyed with that. But Bruce Wayne has got the best mythic motivation of any superhero (excepting possibly Spider-Man). It's the most carefully articulated of any superhero's. Whereas the Green Lantern myth can be enhanced narratively by offing Hal, the Batman myth would be diminished by losing Bruce.

Alan Scott would SO kick your ass for forgetting him.

Dude, he didn't even have a GL corp. Besides, the wood weakness was more lame than the yellow. I never thought they did quite enough with Hal Jordan getting the nod as Green Lantern because he was the most willful person on earth, plus being a cocky rocket jockey.


P.M. Marc - Jun 17, 2004 11:36:51 am PDT #3978 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Dude, he didn't even have a GL corp. Besides, the wood weakness was more lame than the yellow.

He'd still kick your ass.

Also? His daughter is a total hottie. Even if she did just dump Kyle.

Romantically, this has been a BAD year for the Boys of DC Swimsuit Calendar Models.


amych - Jun 17, 2004 11:37:56 am PDT #3979 of 10000
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?

(where can I buy said calendar?)


DavidS - Jun 17, 2004 11:44:49 am PDT #3980 of 10000
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

So who makes your top 12 DC hottie boy list, Ple? (Also, assign them a month please.)