That may be true on paper, but when I was with Verizon, I never paid full price for an upgraded phone, and in many cases paid less than the published subsidized price as long as I was willing to extend my contract. (And as I discovered when I left to get an iPhone, they never even really did that - I should have had about 16 months left by my count, but their systems showed me free and clear.)

I haven't been with AT&T long enough to know whether this is also the case with them, but I doubt people would be bitching so loudly if AT&T stores were willing to bend the rules to make a sale, as is standard practice for other phones and other carriers.

I gotta say, I have my own beefs with Verizon. I feel like they did a bait and switch with me - and were not willing to work with me on it. It has to do with my experience with the data card. I think Verizon's service overall is way too expensive.

I think Verizon is more stable than ATT, but given the phones I buy, I need ATT.

I decided to go on the AT&T site to see when exactly i'm eligible for my upgrade. apparently, i'm free to upgrade to any phone except the iphone right now. if i want the iphone, i have to wait until 8/29. what sense does this make???

apparently, i'm free to upgrade to any phone except the iphone right now. if i want the iphone, i have to wait until 8/29.

Huh. Now THAT is sketchy. In my head it should be a simple checkbox - upgradeable account or not - that flips a certain amount of time after your contract start date. That's how it always worked for me back when I used them.

I actually think AT&T might be more willing to be flexible in this case, like apparently Verizon is, if they weren't subsidizing it so much. Frankly, I imagine that AT&T is paying Apple a LOT for the right to sell those phones; it wouldn't surprise me if Apple is getting $400 in revenue for every new iPhone sold. So AT&T really can't afford to be too flexible. It's different when the "subsidized" price is still above the price they pay for the phone, as is the case I'm sure with many older phones.

ETA Plus, people are complaining about the written and official policy. It may well be that in a month or so, when demand for the new one dies down and there are supplies sitting around on AT&T shelves, that people will be able to talk reps into early upgrades. Reps probably still have that power. But the people being the most vocal are the ones who can't bear to wait even a month.

iirc Apple gets a % of the monthly charge for all iPhone users. If it is somebody switching *to* AT&T, they get some kind of bonus, not sure if it's a one time thing, or a monthly thing. But the iPhone has turned into a HUGE revenue source for Apple.

Hey, does anyone know how the find out the numbered IP address for a site? There's a website that for some reason I can't get to at work, but is fine at home. Our web guys aren't savvy enough to be blocking shit (and I don't know why they would anyway, if the were going to be blocking anything for me, I would think it would be b.org), so it's probably an accident or some other random issue. Of course, it's personal, so I couldn't call the help desk even if I thought that they could fix it. So, I had the idea to try the number. Thoughts?

Open up a terminal (or DOS) window and ping the site. For example, just type

ping yahoo.com

The results will include the IP address.

Click Start then Run. Type in cmd and then click Okay. You'll get the command line. Then type ping www.sitename.com.

thanks, guys! Unfortunately, it still didn't work. I can't figure out why I can't access this site from my work computer. Grrr.

try open DNS. Maybe the DNS server is wonky.