Okay. Let's put it this way -- The fact that Thoros of Myr exists, and is very near the Twins (specifically downriver), is important.

Plotwise, politically, it completely removes the Starks from positions of control, leaving the North open to every other possible major player. We've heard Tywin saying the whoever marries Sansa will have control of the North through her when Robb dies...which is why he made Tyrion marry her. No one even knows Bran and Rickon are still in the picture, and Arya is assumed lost/gone. And all that instability in the North is a huge problem when you heed Ned Stark's warning that serious strength in the North is the only thing keeping the South safe from Wildlings and White Walkers. Even worse when so much of the Night's Watch forces from Castle Black are gone from the battle at the Fist of the First Men and the mutiny at Craster's Keep. I may be missing things, the politics in this world are enormous and I'm tired, but that's a few pieces of the puzzle.

Political instability in the North is a way bigger continental problem that those in King's Landing would ever even consider. (and by continental I mean there's no indication that I've seen that the White Walkers exist beyond Westeros. If they start taking over the Ironborn's boats and sailing...well that'll be...interesting.)

Yes, there's a metric ton of political implications of this development, on top of everything else. But most importantly, I'd say it's that it lulls the Lannisters, and pretty much everybody in Westeros into a false sense of the war coming to an end. Pretty much everybody is spectacularly wrong about that.

Also? Because she has nowhere else to go now, Arya goes to Braavos.

erin,

thank you for that summary. that is really helpful. Part of the reason I read spoilers is because I don't feel like I really understand what is going on. I keep feeling like more knowledge of the future will help. I usually don't have such difficult following stuff, but while rewatching S2 while watching S3 helps. Keeping the grand scheme of things in mind with new characters is kicking my ass. That really helped with perspective.

Just this evening, I had to remind Beau about the circumstances of Ned Stark's demise and I am the last person who can remember these details.

Maybe I need to look up extended book summaries or something. I couldn't finish the first book or I would just do that.

Oh yeah, of course it's a life-changing event for Arya. Also for demonstrating that there are people in this world (Walder Frey, specifically) who cannot be counted on to uphold even the most basic, essential rules of society. I thought the bit with the blokes circulating platters of bread and salt and then Frey giving the speech about the rules of Hospitality did explain that. Not as fully as reading about it several dozen times in preparations...but it was established. Though i suspect that was more of a moral upheaval to me personally than to the storyline. He can't die miserably enough.

I did appreciate the use of Talisa's pregnancy as a catalyst for the massacre, making it even more wrenching for the Stark contingent (and I should have seen that coming, duh, of course she couldn't survive Robb's death with a possible Stark heir.)

The grand scheme is mind-kicking, it's so huge and expansive. I find myself thinking of it as a game of universal domination. Everyone in Westeros, especially the Lannisters and Tyrells in King's Landing, believe it's a game for the Iron Throne, but they are short sighted in only seeing their immediate surroundings. As Northerners are quick to point out, those soft Southerners don't know anything about what is happening North of The Wall...which seems likely to become an increasingly severe problem for the realm

The novel saga is titled A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones is the title of only the first book) which seems far more encompassing than just that one paltry continent and squabbling over who sits where.

Yeah, my response to the Red Wedding was: these people are completely without honor. There is nothing to respect in what they did.

Okay, so I am pretty clear on the motivations for those in the South (the Iron Throne). What are we supposed to understand about the motivations for those in the North? I don't quite understand what they are after.

(going to bed now, so no rush)

What are we supposed to understand about the motivations for those in the North? I don't quite understand what they are after.

Being allowed back into King Joffrey's royal fold.