You saw where I said I disagree with you, right? It's really not that important to me to keep arguing about it. It's opinion, not scientific fact.

I think Cersei loves the way that she knows how to love which I would agree maybe doesn't line up with the warm and fuzzy mother love we generally think of, but I don't think it has to. I don't even think it could given the way that she grew up and how she learned to love in her family. We haven't really seen on the show yet how much of a relationship, if any, she had with her own mother before she died giving birth to Tyrion, but we do know Tywin Lannister and if you learned about love from him, then your conception of love is going to be royally fucked. I think there's always a self-interested aspect to love for Cersei, even with Jamie. I think she loves Tommen and Myrcella, who are not monsters, and I think we saw that when Tyrion had Myrcella sent off to Dorne. And yet, I don't think she'd hesitate for an instant to sell Myrcella off to the highest bidder, just as her father traded her, if she thought it would advance her interests or secure greater power to the Lannisters. That's the way love goes (Oooh, Cersei singing That's the Way Love Goes now in my head and it is funny. Ha!) for her. I guess I gotta agree with Amy. I don't question that in her way she loves her kids. It's certainly not the way that I would hope to love my hypothetical kids, but I'd also hope that my kids didn't turn out to be psycho killers, so there's that . . .

On the flip, I don't imagine that Joffrey loves her, but I don't think he loves anybody.

I actually do think there's a universality to parental love where most people want their kids to grow up to be like them, only better. And unfortunately for Cersei, she's a pretty terrible person, and so she raised her beloved Joffrey to be the worst person. And it's only within the timespan of the show (a year, more or less?) that she's gone from bursting with pride to quietly horrified to seething with jealousy of his fiancee.

a self-interested aspect to love for Cersei

She consistently says things like, "If I were a man, I'd be Jaime." And, even in that relationship, it doesn't actually seem very...affectionate.

most people want their kids to grow up to be like them, only better. And unfortunately for Cersei, she's a pretty terrible person, and so she raised her beloved Joffrey to be the worst person.

Oh, this. I love this!

Also, I'm going to go on record disagreeing with Debet - I like the CGI wolves.

I would like HBO to be spending more money on the CGI wolves. Maybe get Weta Workshop involved. The lazy compositing has been driving me bonkers.

The lazy compositing has been driving me bonkers.

This is my main problem with the effects, too. The effects themselves look great, as far as I'm concerned. The only part that looks like crap is when they're interacting with actors. The bit with Drogon landing on the rail of the ship was very sloppy. I don't know what Dany was looking at, but it wasn't Drogon.

To me, qualifying/quantifying the grounds on which you disagree is different from the disagreement itself. That's what I was pursuing in my last post.

quietly horrified to seething with jealousy of his fiancee.

This might be what I don't associate with love-love, and which has all sorts of adjectives that don't correlate with the things I associate with "I love my son."

Something very curious about the latest GoT episode, on rewatch: In the book, Robb and Cat think that Bran and Rickon are dead (I am also rereading, and just read confirmation of that). I was pretty sure (though I have not gone back and checked) that last season the show also established that Robb and Cat think Bran and Rickon are dead.

So I found it strange that, in this last episode, they discuss the possibility that Bran and Rickon are alive.