Jayne: That's a good idea. Good idea. Tell us where the stuff's at so I can shoot you. Mal: Point of interest? Offering to shoot us might not work so well as an incentive as you might imagine.

'Out Of Gas'


Boxed Set, Vol. III: "That Can't Be Good..."  

A topic for the discussion of Farscape, Smallville, and Due South. Beware possible invasions of Stargate, Highlander, or pretty much any other "genre" show that captures our fancy. Expect Adult Content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.


Daisy Jane - Mar 26, 2007 1:06:03 pm PDT #8764 of 10001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

"So, in your view, should we pardon the person who let the Cylons through our defenses 2 years ago?" It's a legit question in response to Lee's "testimony". It also has the added benefit at being a subtle reference to Baltar's other big crime.

It would have been a good question to ask. However, the answer is that it doesn't matter. Blanket pardon means blanket pardon.

A new day requires new thinking, and while I had intended on using this occasion as an opportunity to announce the formation of a special prosecutor's office charged with investigating acts of collaboration with the enemy; I have decided instead that a different gesture is called for on this, the first day of my next term as your president. We all feel the need for justice, and we all feel the need for vengeance, and telling the difference between the two can be difficult at times. We are all victims of the Cylons, and none of us can be impartial. I certainly can't. So today I am forming a commission on truth and reconciliation to hear our stories and record them for posterity. There will be no prosecutions. I am issuing a general pardon for every human being in this fleet.


Narrator - Mar 26, 2007 1:29:31 pm PDT #8765 of 10001
The evil is this way?

It would have been a good question to ask. However, the answer is that it doesn't matter. Blanket pardon means blanket pardon.

But the blanket pardon Roslin gave did not apply to Baltar -- otherwise he could not have been tried in the first place.

Also, Lee's answer to the question does matter. The jury -- and many of the citizens in the fleet -- might be willing to accept that pardoning these various offenses since the Cylon Attack is appropriate in light of the circumstances. I have a feeling that many of them have done despirate things since then and could hopefully find a way to accept the pardoning of others. But the person who helped bring about the original Cylon Attack -- that is different sin/crime. I don't think that the jurors or most of the fleet would accept the idea of pardoning that person. If Lee argues for a pardon, then he may lose the jury. If he admits that the culpability for the original attack is different, then the prosecutor can argue that Baltar's crimes on New Caprica are also different from the others that Lee discussed.


Topic!Cindy - Mar 26, 2007 1:47:11 pm PDT #8766 of 10001
What is even happening?

Also, Lee's answer to the question does matter. The jury -- and many of the citizens in the fleet -- might be willing to accept that pardoning these various offenses since the Cylon Attack is appropriate in light of the circumstances. I have a feeling that many of them have done despirate things since then and could hopefully find a way to accept the pardoning of others. But the person who helped bring about the original Cylon Attack -- that is different sin/crime. I don't think that the jurors or most of the fleet would accept the idea of pardoning that person. If Lee argues for a pardon, then he may lose the jury. If he admits that the culpability for the original attack is different, then the prosecutor can argue that Baltar's crimes on New Caprica are also different from the others that Lee discussed.

Right, plus if you're the prosecutor, you just don't want the panel's last thought to be 'blanket pardon'. You want it to be about Baltar's sins.


Narrator - Mar 26, 2007 2:12:48 pm PDT #8767 of 10001
The evil is this way?

Yep. And I wonder if Moore did not give the prosecutor the last word -- or have her raise these points -- because to do so would make too difficult to get Baltar acquitted.

But then that prosecutor was no prize. I mean, when Lee got Roslin to admit that she was taking a substance that caused halucinations, the prosecutor should have established that Roslin was only recently taking that stuff. Then the prosecutor could have shown that Roslin's testimony on the stand was consistent with her earlier statements about what happened. This would undercut Lee's implied argument that Roslin's testimony in court was not accurate or reliable.

Goober lawyer.


Topic!Cindy - Mar 26, 2007 2:22:36 pm PDT #8768 of 10001
What is even happening?

Maybe all their good lawyers were killed in the apocalypse, and the surviving ones are just nugget lawyers?


Narrator - Mar 26, 2007 2:30:16 pm PDT #8769 of 10001
The evil is this way?

Maybe. Maybe they just need to get Joseph Adama's law books back from Lee and read up on this stuff. Or watch old re-runs of "Law & Order: Caprica."


Strega - Mar 26, 2007 2:30:23 pm PDT #8770 of 10001

How about asking: "So, in your view, should we pardon the person who let the Cylons through our defenses 2 years ago?" It's a legit question in response to Lee's "testimony".

But they don't know about that, they have no evidence for it, and that wasn't what he was on trial for. Roslin had a deathbed "memory" of seeing Baltar with Six before the attack. And even Roslin doesn't really know what it means; she assumes he was knowingly collaborating with the Cylons back then. And, well, he wasn't.

The prosecutor explicitly said that at the beginning of the first part -- that Baltar was on trial for collaborating with the enemy on New Caprica, because that's the only thing there was actual evidence for.

Plus, enabling the original attack is hat he was thrown in the brig for back in season one, and then Gaeta found out that Baltar was framed. By the Cylons. Who'd want to hand all of that to Romo?


Narrator - Mar 26, 2007 2:42:07 pm PDT #8771 of 10001
The evil is this way?

But they don't know about that, they have no evidence for it, and that wasn't what he was on trial for.

Yes. Absolutely. That's why it's such a great question. The issue for lawyers is whether she had a good faith basis to ask it. She does. Lee's "testimony" about wrongdoers being pardoned didn't just open the door to the issue of the parameters of what actions should be pardoned -- it kicked the door right off the hinges and blew a big hole in the wall as well. By asking about the culpability and pardonability of anyone who was complicit in the original attack, the prosecutor – under the guise of asking about the logical extension of Lee’s position, brings the jury’s attention and emotions back to why they are all so far from their homes in the first place. She doesn’t need to directly accuse Baltar of being complicit in the original attack (and she can’t – I agree with you on this), but the very question pushes Baltar’s situation away from the other examples Lee mentioned.

Plus, if Baltar had reacted to the question, the jury might have seen guilt in his expression. Which, again, helps the prosecution.


Daisy Jane - Mar 26, 2007 2:43:43 pm PDT #8772 of 10001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

And, Strega is, unsurprisingly, smarter than I am.

I was thinking there must be a reason they wouldn't have mentioned that. I do think though, that fairness would say that Baltar would fall under the blanket pardon. I think the trial was always intended for show.

And now his punishment is, though he may not be guilty of a crime, the cool kids still don't like him.

He is also soooo going to fuck up with his little craxy cult.


Daisy Jane - Mar 26, 2007 2:46:04 pm PDT #8773 of 10001
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

By asking about the culpability and pardonability of anyone who was complicit in the original attack, the prosecutor – under the guise of asking about the logical extension of Lee’s position, brings the jury’s attention and emotions back to why they are all so far from their homes in the first place.

I didn't think it was about culpability in the original attack, but what they'd done since. Particularly what happened on New Caprica.