okay, you made me get up and check Storm Front.

my evil plan worked!

According to the book, Harry says "my claim that I had been attacked first couldn't be contested by my master's corpse, so they put me on a kind of accelerated probation: One strike and I was out"

So basically what you said before. No evidence either way.

the other interesting thing about Book!Morgan is that Harry says that he's not very smart, and incapable of independent thought and rationalization, which TV!Morgan seems to be.

Which means that, unless this is Harry's personal perception that is wrong, Morgan, for all his law-abide-yness, can be directed and manipulated, so long as he thinks he's still working within the rules.

I think I remember later we learn (possibly Harry's opinion/perception again) that Morgan is burnt out, that he's a good cop who's done his job for so long that he's become somewhat jaded and hard. That even though he does his job to the letter of the law, he's lost some of his humanity, his compassion.

Which means that, unless this is Harry's personal perception that is wrong, Morgan, for all his law-abide-yness, can be directed and manipulated, so long as he thinks he's still working within the rules.

right. Which is unlike TV!Morgan, who says that the council is flexible with the demons. (or whatever, don't make me undelete and check)

I don't know, Corwood. Maybe I'm having trouble with the psychotic beating-as-ice breaker.

Oh, I get that. I don't like it, but I get it and it's part of my problem with Callie. Let me make it clear that I think the Chief isn't a person who would beat a woman without a nervous breakdown, but I think Callie is exactly the kind of girl who would marry the guy who put her in the hospital.

TV!Morgan, who says that the council is flexible with the demons.

I thought what he meant with that is that the Council doesn't really care if demons kill demons, which I think works for both the books and the show, but I don't think the book Council or Morgan would associate with a demon, even if he did have a "pupil" loose and dangerous. That seems like a whole new ballgame in the show.

I think the Council and Morgan of the books would kill the demon and then hunt down and kill his hellions. But it's hard to say, because I don't think the books have ever had a situation presented like this.

That's very true, Corwood.

Damn my pedantic nature

okay, Morgan's exact words were "sometimes allowances are made. even for hellions" which doesn't sound like a demon/demon thing. I think that the council got involved because they were concerned about an uncontrolled hellspawn running around. When Harry talks to Siroda, he says that as long as he had the chain of sin, Matthew's "ability to do harm was limited"

I suspect that the council would get involved if someone was bound against their will, but as long as Matthew did what he did under his own free will, they stay out of it.

I wonder if the Council tolerate Siroda because he's a devil in the classic sense, that he doesn't actually hurt people, just tempts them and makes suggestions, but, yeah, never actually forces their hand.

Huh... just realized this episode was Harry Dresden and the Chain of Sin. I think I'm going to refer to all episodes in that format. :-)

I wonder if the Council tolerate Siroda because he's a devil in the classic sense, that he doesn't actually hurt people, just tempts them and makes suggestions, but, yeah, never actually forces their hand.

Yeah, I could buy that.

I suspect that the council would get involved if someone was bound against their will

I've been thinking about that. Jim Butcher said (somewhere) that Tv-Bob was cursed because he got too powerful and wicked, and the Wardens tethered his ghost to his skull as punishment. That sounds like the Council ordering someone to be bound against their will. If that's so, I don't see how this version of Bob can be reconciled with the Council and the Laws as theya re in the books. Maybe the Laws have been changed for the series?

I don't think it's entirely realistic that Harry should have powerful enemies everywhere, and no powerful allies, and it makes for a good story when he has to go ask someone he doesn't like much for some help.

Well, book Harry actually has quite a few powerful allies: Michael, the Alphas, certain faeries (being vague so as not to spoil later books), Ebenezar, Susan, Thomas but he gains them slowly over time, and he's reluctant to pull them in for every little thing because he doesn't want them hurt or killed. However, in Storm Front and Fool Moon, it was very much Harry against the world. He doesn't even fully gain Murphy's trust until Summer Knight and she hardly counts as a powerful ally (totally kickass, but painfully mortal).

My first impression of the Book White Council went like this: "Okay, they'll execute Harry for killing his uncle with magic, but where were they when said uncle was trying to enslave the 17-year-old kid Harry was? Leave a kid to fend for himself against a powerful black wizard, and then threaten to kill him and put him under some kind of Doom probation for defending himself? These guys are arrogant hypocritical bastards. When can we kill them?" I get that their only intention is to enforce the 7 Laws of Magic (which they made up), but if protecting kids from evil wizards, when they're the only ones who reasonably CAN, is not in their charter, then they all need to be replaced with actual human beings.

I seem to remember Book!Morgan saying "we have only your word for that" when Harry reminded him that it was self defense. I thought of it as a situation where they had no reason to believe it wasn't, but also no evidence to believe that it was.

Right. It was Harry's word against Justin's and book!Justin was a Warden. The Council had no idea that Justin had turned to evil. (It's never been spelled out in the books, but we find out in Dead Beat that Justin got Bob when he was part of a group that took down a powerful necromancer. I have a feeling he found more than Bob among the ruins of the necromancer's lair, and whatever it was started him down the dark path.) As far as the White Council was concerned, one of their Warden's in good standing had adopted a couple of orphan children with magical talent and was raising them as his apprentices. Next thing they know, Justin's home is burned to the ground, one of his apprentices is missing and presumed dead and they find Justin's other apprentice standing over his charred bones.

Harry was the magical equivalent of a cop-killer, even if it was self-defense, which explains a lot of Morgan's hatred of him.

the other interesting thing about Book!Morgan is that Harry says that he's not very smart, and incapable of independent thought and rationalization, which TV!Morgan seems to be.

Right. Book!Morgan is very much a simple enforcer for the Council, whereas TV!Morgan seems like more of an investigator.

I think I remember later we learn (possibly Harry's opinion/perception again) that Morgan is burnt out, that he's a good cop who's done his job for so long that he's become somewhat jaded and hard. That even though he does his job to the letter of the law, he's lost some of his humanity, his compassion.

Yup. Dead Beat is where Harry finally starts to understand Morgan and what makes him tick. And even before that, as much of an ass as he is, he isn't a bad guy. He saves Harry's life in Storm Front. Granted he does it because it's his duty as a Warden to protect all members of the White Council, but he didn't have to risk his life to pull Harry out of the blaze or give him CPR.