I gave her everything... jewels, beautiful dresses -- with beautiful girls in them.

Spike ,'Sleeper'


The Great Write Way  

A place for Buffistas to discuss, beta and otherwise deal and dish on their non-fan fiction projects.


Scrappy - Feb 15, 2005 5:16:43 pm PST #9914 of 10001
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

I heard two women (who loved DVC) discussing it at work. They both thought it was like a cool puzzle, with a bonus art and a romance. The clues are so obvious, they could be ahead of the writer. It made them feel SMART--where, for example, a beautifully written fictional or deeply researched non-fiction book would be hard for them to get through and likely make them feel the opposite.


deborah grabien - Feb 15, 2005 5:20:55 pm PST #9915 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

Robin, I'm betting they both backed away from Umberto Eco's Name of the Rose like it had plague sores on it.

I am not going to get any solid work done for at least another week. This is driving me bonkers. I want these floors done and my life back.


Hil R. - Feb 15, 2005 5:23:53 pm PST #9916 of 10001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

When The DaVinci Code was first really popular, a whole lot of people were telling me that I'd love it, so I went to Barnes and Noble to get a copy. They were sold out, but they had a "If you liked The DaVinci Code, you'll like..." table set up, and I ended up buying a few books from there. I loved all of those. Hated DaVinci Code, when I finally did read it.


Susan W. - Feb 15, 2005 5:41:56 pm PST #9917 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

An adverb is just a word. That's all it is. It's not the antichrist and it's not the second coming, either.

They're like anything else - it's how and where you use them. Also, why you use them.

Oh, I agree. It's one of those many, many cases where a piece of sound writing advice--"Watch your adverbs, for they often mean telling rather than showing, or overexplaining"--is taken as an absolute fundamentalist Rule That Must Never Be Broken. If it ends in -ly, Thou Shalt Excise It.

Thing is, in my work, 75% of my adverbs don't belong in the finished version. I let myself use them freely in rough drafts, because all those "said thuslies" are like my notes to myself indicating what I'm trying to accomplish.

Some of them, I keep. I've got an "exquisitely, excrutiatingly" in my new version of Anna's first chapter that's staying, because those are the perfect words, dammit. It's not tied to a "said," though.

Part of it for me is I've entered that stage of an unpublished writer's career where my obsession is figuring out just what I have to do to get past all the damned gatekeepers, and deciding what compromises I will and won't make. So I'm questioning every adverb, because some gatekeepers care. And I'm upping the action in my early chapters, because the gatekeepers don't seem to like the subtle. And while I'm not about to change my central conflict, after having more readers than not question whether class difference is a strong enough conflict to build a 100,000-word novel around, I'm trying to be a lot more explicit about WHY it's not something that could be easily overcome.

Those are compromises I'm willing to make. What I'm not going to do is write anything that doesn't resonate with me because it sells, nor step away from what I'm passionate about because gritty Regencies aren't what's on the shelves.


Polter-Cow - Feb 15, 2005 5:50:50 pm PST #9918 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Susan roooooocks.


deborah grabien - Feb 15, 2005 5:52:51 pm PST #9919 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

Your mileage - whether reading or writing - may definitely vary. I have a dislike for "said" being used in every piece of dialogue; I find it particularly infuriating and pointless when there are only two characters on a scene. As in:

Thom and Billy, alone in the vast boardroom, stared down at the city lights.

"I'm going to Memphis tomorrow," Billy said. "It's time."

"I agree," Thom said. "Someone has to deal with it."

"I should probably go home and pack," Billy said.

Um, yo? Two characters in conversation. I am a grownup, who can follow dialogue. MUST you tell me which character is speaking, every single time?

edit: pssst, Susan, check your spellings. It's "excruciatingly": c not t.


Susan W. - Feb 15, 2005 6:04:44 pm PST #9920 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

It's correct in the manuscript. Though, now that I remember it, I typed it wrong there the first time, and Word helpfully underlined it in red.

(I have to give Word credit where it's due, since I bitch about it so much.)

I have a dislike for "said" being used in every piece of dialogue; I find it particularly infuriating and pointless when there are only two characters on a scene.

Oh, I agree. I only use it as often as I think it needs to be there to keep who's speaking clear. Because it's equally a pet peeve of mind to lose track of who said what and have to go back to the last attribution and put in the "he saids" and "she saids" myself.


deborah grabien - Feb 15, 2005 6:18:22 pm PST #9921 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

I'd rather see a writer use illustrative actions in conversation than simply state "he said" "she said", anyway.


Susan W. - Feb 15, 2005 6:26:53 pm PST #9922 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

I try to mix them fairly evenly, though action tags are another thing that are second draft or beyond for me. They're just not one of the things that come to me early in the process.


deborah grabien - Feb 15, 2005 6:30:14 pm PST #9923 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

What are action tags?

I find that if I'm seeing the character, I'm seeing them from moment one, and knowing whether they're sighing or stretching or feeling guilty or sneaking a look over someone's shoulder is part of that for me.

I can't do broad sketches on a character, and fill things in later; I just don't work that way.