You're wrong about River. River's not on the ship. They didn't want her here, but she couldn't make herself leave. So she melted... Melted away. They didn't know she could do that, but she did.

River ,'Objects In Space'


The Great Write Way  

A place for Buffistas to discuss, beta and otherwise deal and dish on their non-fan fiction projects.


Topic!Cindy - Jan 20, 2005 12:59:11 am PST #9565 of 10001
What is even happening?

A kid likes a book because they like it, not because it won a Caldecott. Classics of children's literature become that way because kids respond to them over and over.
In first grade, Ben borrowed a book from the library because it had the Caldecott gold medal insignia on the cover. He was *very* impressed, but there may have been plans to harvest the gold for untold riches. I'll never tell.


Nutty - Jan 20, 2005 4:59:22 am PST #9566 of 10001
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

My experiences as a children's librarian tell me that children respond viscerally to things you can't predict, and often to things we all can agree are crap. I don't think that children automatically gravitate towards 'classics' because the classics are better, although they are; I think the reason for that gravitation is that the classics are works they can share with the adults and older children in their lives, and everyone reading the book gets something out of it.

Rather than the parents enduring yet another read-through of an incredibly bad tie-in picture book to the 70s Disney movie The Black Hole. (I had a toddler at my old library who was obsessed with that book, and the parents hated it, and prayed it was just a phase.) I think young kids in general tend to live in a soup of private knowledge, and can turn something pointless (like, a stick) into something pointful (a baby doll) with the application of imagination -- and they do the same to books.

When I was a kid, I "read" Tintin books in French, with zero reading comprehension. It was a totally different story from the translated versions I found when I was older.


Anne W. - Jan 20, 2005 5:40:26 am PST #9567 of 10001
The lost sheep grow teeth, forsake their lambs, and lie with the lions.

My experiences as a children's librarian tell me that children respond viscerally to things you can't predict, and often to things we all can agree are crap.

I can agree. When I taught middle school, I taught a few creative writing units. My approach was very much of the "write what you want to, but you have to write, " sort. I noticed that the kids tended to write what they read--not plagiarism (except in one case, and that was ug-lee), but mimicry. If they liked the "Redwall" books, they wrote about talking animals. If they read romance novels, they wrote romance. With a few exceptions, the writing itself was very, very bare-boned, of the who-did-what, who-said-what variety. The exceptions were generally long, list-like descriptions of things like dresses (usually the girls' writing. Usually.), weapons, spaceships, etc. There was very little thought as to the quality or poetry of the writing.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I think that while younger readers and writers may notice the difference between styles of writing, they haven't figured out how style plays into how the story works. They seem to be more interested in certain ideas (like the Black Hole reader, or kids who will devour every ghost story they can find) and in "what happens next."

The biggest disconnect between children as readers and writers, IMO, comes in the area of characterization. I do think that younger readers can appreciate well-written charcters and come to love them like their own friends, but it takes them a while to learn how to make their own characters have that effect on a reader.


§ ita § - Jan 20, 2005 5:49:05 am PST #9568 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I do think that younger readers can appreciate well-written charcters and come to love them like their own friends, but it takes them a while to learn how to make their own characters have that effect on a reader.

Having read some crap written by grownups, I'd hardly think of it as a "younger reader" issue.


Polter-Cow - Jan 20, 2005 5:53:10 am PST #9569 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I noticed that the kids tended to write what they read

The first thing I recall writing was a children's book for the "Written and Illustrated by..." contest, in third grade. It was called The Disastrous Dino War, and it was about some dinosaurs...having a war. They had names like Tyranno and Ankylo and that business. I think at the end some humans came from the future and killed them all. Or maybe it was the meteor. The book's got to be lying around somewhere in the house. I think mine was the best from my class or something like that, so I got to go to the little ceremony/convention dealie and meet Dennis Vollmer, one of the kids who'd gotten his book published.

In fourth grade, I wrote K.E.E.T. and the Invasion of the Insectoids. K.E.E.T. stood for "Kids with the Entomology Expertise of Tomorrow." I think that one had a gun which turned people into insects, and one of the kids ended up with a fly leg.

Anne's right in that the stories were more this happened and that happened, though I don't have the actual text with me. I know I didn't know much about writing a character until my first creative writing class in college.

I'm not sure whether using the word "entomology" in fourth grade makes me precocious enough for Deb to want to go back in time and throttle me. I would have been about...nine.

Huh, now I'm remembering something from maybe fifth or sixth grade, where I heard one of my teachers commenting on some sort of card we had sent to someone who'd had some trouble. I had written, "I'm sorry your [house? store?] was burglarized and vandalized thrice." I sure did like big words.


Pix - Jan 20, 2005 5:55:54 am PST #9570 of 10001
We're all getting played with, babe. -Weird Barbie

Can I make a request?

I would really like to get back to talking about our own writing again, only because I know that when we have gone down this path in the past it has caused dissension among us...and I value the harmony we normally have in here. (I fully include myself as one of the natterers, btw.)

I'm sorry; I don't mean to be a pain.

t waits for thwapping


Topic!Cindy - Jan 20, 2005 5:57:28 am PST #9571 of 10001
What is even happening?

I'm standing quietly next to Kristin, because I've been writing up a similar post since yesterday, and then closing the window, because I didn't know how to say it.


Polter-Cow - Jan 20, 2005 5:58:19 am PST #9572 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I'm talking about my own writing!

...Almost fifteen years ago.

But no, I get you.

then closing the window, because I didn't know how to say it.

I find that hard to believe. You're very good at saying.


Anne W. - Jan 20, 2005 5:59:12 am PST #9573 of 10001
The lost sheep grow teeth, forsake their lambs, and lie with the lions.

My post above was intended as a gentle re-direct.

Also, what Kristin and Cindy said.


Scrappy - Jan 20, 2005 6:04:07 am PST #9574 of 10001
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

I agree--I think I liked better books, but then I became a writer. As I said, I didn't know why I hung onto "Roller Skates" and not "Marla's Big Date" but I did. I don't think kids only like great books, but kids, especially younger kids, do like the classics. "Goodnight Moon" still pleases tinys, and so does "Make way for Ducklings." The comfort food books kids glom onto and read over and over might not stay with kids the way better books do. I was obsessive about some show called "Circus Boy" (starring a young Mickey Dolenz!) when I was a kid and watched it every day. Yet I don't remember a scene of it. I DO remember, in detail, seeing a local production of "MY Fair Lady" when I the same age, though. Not the songs, which I could have gotten from the album, the actual staging of the the production we saw.

ETA-- and I posted this before I saw Kristin's post. Happy to get off my high horse and stop now!