Brynn, isn't a complete hoop-toss? I've managed precisely three short stories in my entire career (not counting Buffyfic), and I sweated over each one. Novels? Charging down the straightaway on my twelfth, no problem.

If you can do the short story form, I salute you. I find them incredibly tricky to do at all, much less do well.

I guess I'll see. I find it sort of grueling though. That's one of the biggest mistakes I make about writing, I tend to think that it's not work, but really, it's the definition of work.

Heh, heh, heh, the truth gets out... and if you don't gruel through it, it generally never gets finished.

Then comes revision!

My friend Kit Kerr compared novel-writing to swimming the English Channel - you get all excited when you push off, and the swimming's fine, but after a couple of hours you're out of the sight of land and not sure where you're going, and maybe you can't even see the support boat, and you're cold and very very tired and maybe the urge is there to just give up and sink beneath the waves, because the very idea of France seems like a dream....

Um, that's a little less encouraging than I had remembered....

you get all excited when you push off, and the swimming's fine, but after a couple of hours you're out of the sight of land and not sure where you're going, and maybe you can't even see the support boat, and you're cold and very very tired and maybe the urge is there to just give up and sink beneath the waves, because the very idea of France seems like a dream....

I think you might need to add the part where the sun comes out, and the support boat's in sight again, and the seagulls are pretty, and then you see some land...

Not that I've ever got past "where's that boat gone?", myself.

If you can do the short story form, I salute you. I find them incredibly tricky to do at all, much less do well.

It's kind of odd, when I was younger I thought short stories were by and large the easiest form. I've only ever had one piece published and it was a short story that I wrote in high school. Then I started University and realized that they're considered the most difficult (to write at least). I remember my first year English Prof saying that in a novel, there are "throwaway" words. In a short story everything is specifically chosen, everything is there for a reason. I have to admit, it's kind of psyched me out. The more I study litterature, the harder I find it to write creatively because I'm more aware of my structures, pacing etc. Some people can write that way, me I have to clear a space for myself. Otherwise I erase 9 words for every 7 I write.

Anyway, the novel didn't start out that way... I just started working on a short story and realized after about 14 pages that it demanded a bigger scope than that of a short story. Although, it might be more of a novella... I'm not sure yet, but sometimes it's frightening, because it is so much larger than I am.

The more I study litterature, the harder I find it to write creatively because I'm more aware of my structures, pacing etc.

This will undoubtedly get me blasted from several sides of the arena, but it's why I never took a writing class. I'm the daughter of a musician, the youngest of four, and the only one who showed a natural ear. He flatly refused to let me study music as a kid because (his phrase, not mine), "formal musical education has ruined more good creative heads than opium ever did." His take was, see if you have something to say before you bury yourself in someone else's theory on how to say it.

He was talking about composers, not interpreters, but it sort of stuck. I still find the best way to deal with pacing is to read the thing aloud in progress, first to myself and then to listeners. Also, instinct comes in at some point for most writers. If it feels slow writing it or reading it aloud? There's generally a damned good chance it really is slow.

That's such an interesting issue, deb. To date, I have been terrified of formally studying songwriting. As though I fear I would be 'contaminated' by the process and would never again create my own structure or form. In this latest bout, I've been considering it, though, becase I fear I'm shortchanging myself.

Hrm...

I must consider.

Liese, I think the compromise is the best concept. My father's take - do you have something to say? You do? Good, do you have a natural voice or ear? Good. Now play with it, learn what it is by playing with it and working with it and for pity's sake keep those stunted little wannabe types away from it until you've branded it as your own - is something I totally agree with.

But circumstances moved me away from studying it later, when it might have meant I stayed involved in music instead of moving towards other things (in those days, drama and history). And I rather wish I had taken a year or two of the mechanics of music, the math, pure music theory. I'd likely have crashed and burned, but what knowledge is ever wasted?

Thing is (back on pure topic), I never took a writing course or class of any flavour whatsoever in my entire life. I sat down, I wrote, I let a bazillion different people read what I wrote both as I was writing it and after I thought I'd finished. I listened to what everyone said, I learned to weed out the useful from the merely personal or well-intentioned, and I went from there.

It's worked for me, so far. But your mileage? Varies like a Hummer hybrid.

When it comes to formal training aiding/inhibiting your creativity, I think of my favorite Useful Metaphor (from the storehouse of same).

My old roommate Damun picked up a German girl while hiking in Yosemite and brought her home to live with us. Stephie had formally apprenticed in the violin-making program in Germany. The first thing you do when joining such an apprenticeship, is make your own tools so that they are balanced in your own hand. The work is so fine that you need to use custom-made tools that work specifically for you.

I think formal training can get you places more quickly, and eliminate a lot of blind alleys. It can also limit you beforehand by cutting off areas of exploration which might be useful. In either case, you need to create your own creative process. It's not going to come to you packaged, and it will probably grow and change over time. But I am a big believer that if you wait around for inspiration in the middle of the night you're going to have a long wait. Those flashes come and go, but the act of creating is itself generative. Best to build rituals (out of formal training or fucking around) that foster some space for working regularly.

On a more specific songwriting note, a lot of songwriters purposefully force themselves to write on different instruments (moving from guitar to piano for example), or different tunings (Joni Mitchell notoriously) or even writing around drum machine patterns (something both Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush started doing which freed up their compositions) to spark themselves.

The first thing you do when joining such an apprenticeship, is make your own tools so that they are balanced in your own hand. The work is so fine that you need to use custom-made tools that work specifically for you.

That whole thing's a wonderful analogy, Hecubus.