Glory: Lesson number one, Vampires equal impure! Spike: Damn right I'm impure, I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow!

'Dirty Girls'


The Great Write Way  

A place for Buffistas to discuss, beta and otherwise deal and dish on their non-fan fiction projects.


Corinna - May 15, 2003 8:31:16 pm PDT #1275 of 10001
Bill, my friend, strange deeds are afoot at the Circle K.

I love Rita Brown's stuff.


Rebecca Lizard - May 15, 2003 9:37:16 pm PDT #1276 of 10001
You sip / say it's your crazy / straw say it's you're crazy / as you bicycle your soul / with beauty in your basket

I love Rita Brown beyond my capacity to tell it.


deborah grabien - May 15, 2003 9:55:10 pm PDT #1277 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

Aw jeez.

Posted earlier at PF, I mentioned that I was livid at old agent buddy and her partner, for completely misreading one of the best non-grenre AU manuscripts I've ever seen in my life?

Am going back and forth with said old agent buddy in email. Snippets from the smackdown, offered for your consideration, as things to avoid when encountered on the slippery slope of agenting. The BB referenced herein is my buddy's partner:

I'd make a terrible mass market agent: I saw the lead character as a lead character in search of her calling, her talent, a cooler climate and her own soul, not in search of her tenderness and/or ovaries. She (the lead character) resists closeness, all the way through. And what on earth is with the need to make the boy into some stereotypical prince and make him central to the story?

This is why I won't read genre fantasy. Despite the entire genre being opened to women writers (and yes, for a long time women writers had to "pass", like DC Fontana and Andre Norton, to write this stuff), no one in the industry seems willing to believe that there are readers who see strong intelligent women as lead characters, instead of as "protectors of little boys who are actually missing princes who miraculously come back to reclaim their heritage so the female character can discover her Deep Inner Tenderness and the Joys of Maternity and maybe even - "

Oh, never mind. I'm far too upset to talk without oozing sarcasm over it right now. I'm not upset at you, because it would appear that it's BB who thinks the story needs a nice bombastic and TOTALLY NEEDLESS two more books to "complete". For heavens sake, how is it possible to not see this one as a self-contained story?

I'm nauseated by BB not only apparently buying into the "generic fantasy trilogy aimed at teenaged boys" shit, but for actually promulgating it. That's why I said, glad she and I didn't hook up. I'd have smothered her if she tried this on anything of mine. Because with the whole godawful generic "missing prince" storyline, you get a completely different story. I'm imagining that attitude being laid on Plainsong. "A GIRL? A girl GOD? THAT isn't going to sell to the kids - make it a boy, and then Julia can marry Max, and...."

Sorry. Retching over here. But not at you.

I am so damned pissed off....


Susan W. - May 15, 2003 10:50:01 pm PDT #1278 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

What really puzzles me about BB's reaction is that I read a fair amount of fantasy, and it's been years since I read one that followed the standard lost prince plot. There's a series where one of several lead characters is a lost princess and hasn't quite figured it out yet. And another where in the third book the heroine does, admittedly, go on a quest for a missing prince, but it's still 100% her story. But the last series I read that was All About the Long Lost Prince was the Belgariad, back in college. Twelve years ago. There's plenty of variety in fantasy.


deborah grabien - May 15, 2003 10:54:04 pm PDT #1279 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

Susan, maybe this will ::enlighten:: (oozing sarcasm here, not at you, but at BB):

Old Buddy: BB suggested K (female lead) as a female Merlin. Not maternal. A warrior/power-wielding woman.

(OK, and I haven't even included my rant, which she will get by phone tomorrow, about the tiny, mind-bending, universe-destroying thought of simply leaving the lead character as she's written)

Me: Um, hello? Merlin wasn't a warrior. He was SEXLESS, emasculated - that was the price of his "power". Stewart wrote him that way, Mallory wrote him that way, T.H. White would have written him that way if he'd been anything other than a Brit who avoided touching the subject of sex if possible. Merlin's power could only serve OTHERS, not himself. He was helpless, given magic in return for his personal worth. You call that power? I don't. And in seeing a strong lead character with genuine honest to goddess female characteristics as a "Merlin"? I call that taking a powerless servant whose only purpose is to shepherd a Boy King (feh), and putting panties on him. That. Is. Not. K (lead character). Gah.

I am so cranky over this, it's mind-boggling. Yeah, let's have another generic dopey "girl discovers nether regions and leads Rightful Boy Character to his destiny."

And then we can rename it "Bite Me".

Feh.


P.M. Marc - May 15, 2003 10:55:55 pm PDT #1280 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Heh, Deb. That's one of my problems with Season Seven Buffy... Ahem. But, your rant is a thing of beauty.


deborah grabien - May 15, 2003 10:57:26 pm PDT #1281 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

(bowing at Plei, but still seething)

You know what absolutely makes me want to bang my head against a wall? BB's husband is a world-famous scifi writer.

Merlin. Gah. Eat me, lady.

(banging head against desk)


Susan W. - May 15, 2003 11:03:07 pm PDT #1282 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

I share your rant, I'm just genuinely puzzled as to what fantasy BB has been reading. Because I go look at my own bookshelves, and I see Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series, Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel books, some of Guy Gavriel Kay's work, the Rawn/Roberson/Elliott collaboration The Golden Key, even Orson Scott Card's Enchantment and the Alvin Maker series, and I'm just not seeing this One Standard Plot which all fantasy must follow if it's going to sell.


Susan W. - May 15, 2003 11:08:58 pm PDT #1283 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

Oh, and I shared my concerns about the resume business with my career counselor. Now that she understands that writing novels is my highest priority, she agrees that it's not the way to go. She's recommending me to a colleague of hers who does a lot of work with writers to help me find a self-employment route more compatible with writing.


deborah grabien - May 15, 2003 11:12:04 pm PDT #1284 of 10001
It really doesn't matter. It's just an opinion. Don't worry about it. Not worth the hassle.

Susan, here's the thing, and it's the most important point:

This isn't genre fantasy. BB is trying to nudge the author, who is a well-known writer and former president of SFWA, into rewriting and expanding as a genre fantasy.

It isn't.

There's no magic of any kind. Basically it's a historical novel set in AU circs because she needed a specific climate (cold) and a specific stage of society (just pre-industrial, with the first telegraph wires being strung). She refuses to allow it to be shoved into the genre fantasy niche. It's about a woman who wants to be a cartographer and who works for a guild who won't let her go do that, because she's far too good at representing the local PTB and collecting their enemies and whatnot.

Merlin my left ventricle. This. Is. Not. Fantasy.