"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Muslims took that wrong, huh? Sheesh, sensitive much?
I hate to break it to you, oh impotent one, but you're not the big bad anymore, you're not even the kind of naughty.
Xander ,'Showtime'
Natter 46: The FIGHTIN' 46
Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.
brenda m - Sep 16, 2006 11:47:25 am PDT #8444 of 10001
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there
Matt the Bruins fan - Sep 16, 2006 11:54:38 am PDT #8445 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
Yeah. And while the very early Christian movement was highly nonviolent what with the martyrs being fed to lions and all, I'd think people of the Islamic faith would have more recent historical memories of, say, the Crusades and the ejection of the Moors from Spain. Benedict's throwing stones from inside a glass basillica.
Cashmere - Sep 16, 2006 11:59:00 am PDT #8446 of 10001
Now tagless for your comfort.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Oh, yeah, that'll help. Wasn't Ratz talking about a Medieval manuscript? 'Cause if we could start pulling stuff out on Christianity from the same period to give everyone a little perspective.
erikaj - Sep 16, 2006 12:00:16 pm PDT #8447 of 10001
Always Anti-fascist!
I hate that because it seems to me he can say what he wants and be protected from the consequences.
Tom Scola - Sep 16, 2006 12:05:03 pm PDT #8448 of 10001
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.
Bon voyage, Jess!
libkitty - Sep 16, 2006 12:49:29 pm PDT #8449 of 10001
Embrace the idea that we are the leaders we've been looking for. Grace Lee Boggs
So, this is late because I didn't have time to read here yesterday, but my cousin's ex-husband was 14-15 pounds when born, and his brother was 17. That seems even more impressive not that I see how huge the CT is!
Strega - Sep 16, 2006 1:01:20 pm PDT #8450 of 10001
Wasn't Ratz talking about a Medieval manuscript?
Yes, he was quoting a Byzantine emperor. That was an extraordinarily stupid line to quote, but the speech wasn't really attacking Islam. It was attacking secularism, which I find much more troubling.
The whole thing is here: [link]
Topic!Cindy - Sep 16, 2006 2:27:50 pm PDT #8451 of 10001
What is even happening?
In his speech, the pope quoted 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus who said: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Shame on CNN for omitting context such that their reporting is only going to exacerbate the situation. TIME magazine's coverage is better: [link]
This transcript from Zenit.org is (for me, anyhow) a little easier on the eyes than the one at cggl.org: [link]
Ratzinger is a theology wonk (even for a pope) and his context was complicated and long winded, but CNN didn't even try to get his point.
It was attacking secularism, which I find much more troubling.
I read it as more attacking the tendency to treat reason and faith as two subjects that must remain apart, particularly given the context he established at the beginning of the speech (about his time at the University of Bonn).
I did not find the speech all that accessible though, and my house wasn't giving me the silence I needed in order to let it sink in, so I may have failed to understand. Where did you see the attacks on secularism, Strega?
(eta)
I do see where he is critiquing secularism. I just didn't see attacks, or didn't view what he did say as attacks, given he was also critiquing faith divorced from reason. I wasn't trying to be obtuse, here.
dcp - Sep 16, 2006 3:03:28 pm PDT #8452 of 10001
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.
Two amazing videos on Google of model airplanes doing indoor acrobatic routines :
[link] 17.3Mb
and
[link] 16.9Mb
Jessica - Sep 16, 2006 3:11:34 pm PDT #8453 of 10001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
at the airport...line for security v v long!