I'm coming in on the tail end of the kink discussion, but being me, I can't resist putting in my .02 (and then some).

What is kink, and how does it differ from fetish? And how do both differ from preference?

"Kink" is, I think, a generic, all-purpose broad term that's used by most people to refer to "sexual activity that doesn't match up with the cultural norm." And the thing is, when you let that term be so broad and all-purpose, that can encompass bondage, men wearing women's lingerie, sex with animals, fire play, wearing diapers -- and about a billion other things.

The term is used even more generically to describe what turns someone on, whether or not it's "kinky" in the deviant sense of the word. (I'm thinking here of ficcers who refer to their "bulletproof kink" in fanfic, which doesn't have to be deviant-kinky; it's just the thing that they really really dig.)

So, the term "kink" is generic enough as to not have much meaning, but in general, people seem to agree that it means "sexual activity outside the cultural norm."

"Fetish," on the other hand, is a very specific term -- or is meant to be -- and refers to something that a person *needs* in order to have a fulfilling sexual experience.

Like, when *I* say that I have a big-hand fetish, I'm actually using the term wrong. I don't need a partner with big hands in order to have a fulfilling sexual experience. I just like big hands.

So I'm arguing that "kink" by definition requires an element of "bentness" to it. That it has something to do with the individual's relationship to their own sexuality, and that happens within a larger cultural notion of what's normative.

I would agree that "kink" is definitely "bent" in relation to the larger cultural idea of what's normative.

It is less arguable that all sexual practices which deviate from cultural norms require a core fucked-upedness. Though I tend to think that is probably true in most instances.

But I don't agree with this. Though I'm wondering what you mean by "fucked up." Because when I think of it, I think of someone who's damaged in some way. And that leads me to 2 thoughts: (1) we are ALL fucked up, yo. And I'm not remotely kidding. (2) "Fucked up" as shorthand for "damaged" isn't really accurate when it comes to "kink." Yes, there are kinky people who are fucked up, but there are plenty of vanilla-only people who are fucked up, too. Correlation is not causation. If a person is kinky, that doesn't mean that they're fucked up. Or, at the very least, that doesn't mean that their kink has its origins in being fucked up. That's more the kind of thing that you hear about with serial killers and child molesters, isn't it?

t /not an authority on kink, just a fan

From CNN

(CNN) -- There are now 95 cases of E. coli in as many as 20 states, a government source has told CNN.

Here is the updated case counts by state from the Centers for Disease Control: California (1), Connecticut (2), Idaho (3), Indiana (4), Kentucky (3), Maine (2), Michigan (6), Minnesota (1), New Mexico (5), Nevada (1), New York (7), Ohio (7), Oregon (5), Pennsylvania (3), Tennessee (1), Utah (11), Virginia (1), Washington (1), Wisconsin (30), West Virginia (1). Total: 95

Of those, one has died (in Wisconsin) and 29 are hospitalized. (Posted 6:35 p.m.)

11 in Utah. Makes me glad I hate spinach.

California (1)

Damn. I love spinach. If it were thoroughly cooked, say, sag or palak paneer, would that kill the E. coli., or is it better just to abstain completely?

eta: Mmmm, Teppy's spicy brains. Maybe I do have one mild kink after all.

JZ, personally, and it's just me, being pregnant**, I would abstain.

And don't eat the spinach either.

**JZ who is pregnant, not me.

If I'm case #1 for MD, y'all can yell at me. But it is cooked within an inch of its greeness and I've had the bag longer than most people keep their produce (bought last week) so presumably it would have hit earlier, right? And I really fucking wanted spinach, ok?!

Plus, I'll drink some booze.

30 in Wisconsin!!

And (so far) - zero right next door to both WI and IA.

I went to Subway for lunch and yes, indeed, the spinach was gone.

Cooked usually kills e-coli. Though if it was bagged spinache I'd still skip it - cause you really don't want to eat even dead e-coli. Don't know how many toxins would already be in the bag - but there is an ick factor there.

Heat does kill e.coli, but I'm with Aims for erring on the side of caution while pregnant.

Does anyone here speak Boy?

No. Whaddya need incorrectly translated?