I mean, oral sex was considered quite outside of cultural norms, say, four decades ago, but NSM now.

Yeah but blowjobs aren't kinky anymore.

No, but you're right, I need to make a distinction between behavior which is merely outside the cultural commonplace, and that which is driven by compulsion.

But that's tricky since all sex tends to have some compelling drive and almost all fetishes have a cultural component.

I think the question may be what you mean by "fucked up." What I think Hec is trying to say is that "kinky" really means "doing or wanting something different from most people." And tommyrot correctly points out that the definition changes by time and place.

Not to mention that the Party Line may be very different from what people actually do. Look at Victorian England, where a Party Line of "don't talk about it, and don't do it outside marriage" coexisted with a thriving porn trade (see Steven Marcus' The Other Victorians) and large numbers of prostitutes.

As a working definition, I think Hec is in the neighborhood. The problem is that "kinky" is one of those concepts that may be impossible to define outside the personal level. Or quips like, "Kinky involves a feather; perverted involves the whole chicken."

That's not really what I'm saying. I'm arguing that having a healthy attitude toward sex (which I am attributing to the Swedes without any proof) precludes kinkiness. Kinkiness requires some pathology.

To resolve the different views on this, it probably would be useful to distinguish between an interest in unusual sexual practices and a dependence on unusual sexual practices. What you find in Sweden (and other Nordic countries and the Netherlands) is unusually high levels of self-reported satisfaction with ordinary sexual practices. People like their vanilla sex. If works for them. So saying that people who are happy with vanilla sex are Swedish-like makes some sense.

That doesn't mean that people in those cultures aren't interested in non-vanilla sex. They are interested. But people who find the most ordinary sexual practices to be highly satisfying are are less likely to be dependent on unusual sexual practices in order to achieve sexual gratification. They might sample them, but they are less likely to get stuck with one specific pattern.

To look for GA spoilers or to not look for GA spoilers??

Wishing I had more of asample so I could decide where I stood, so to speak. Although there is a real issue in the disability community in re devotee-ism. Which some people condemn completely, esp. abuse survivors. But I think it could be okay to have sex with a crip devotee as long as "I could do anything I want to you and you can't get away!" isn't the sole basis of our relationship. But I've never actually met somebody who told me that, despite hearing they are as common as dirt.

What you find in Sweden (and other Nordic countries and the Netherlands) is unusually high levels of self-reported satisfaction with ordinary sexual practices. People like their vanilla sex. If works for them. So saying that people who are happy with vanilla sex are Swedish-like makes some sense.

Right, France has one of the highest sexual-satisfaction rates in Europe with heterosexual couples reporting vaginal penetration 98% of the time and a high disapproval (or denial) of masturbation.

ETA: Between this and Movies, I am all about the French fucking today.

Let's pick on the Finns. I don't want to think about my grandparents' sex life. Even if they are long dead.

In other news, I somehow managed to score a haircut appointment for tomorrow. That never happens. Usually Alison is booked up a couple weeks in advance for saturday haircuts, with a lot of people on the waiting list. I figured I'd have to survive another couple weeks. I just got really really lucky and someone cancelled right before I called and A gave me the slot. Woohoo! Following a stylist through 3 salons and several counties has its perks.

I swear that somewhere I've read that the change happened as gay porn become big business. So I think Peter North was just part of a general trend; gay porn led to more attractive men in the business. And around the same time the home video market exploded, so appealing to female consumers became more of a priority.

Strega, your knowledge base is a thing of awesome beauty and power.

Four confirmed cases of E.Coli here in town. Feh.

Heh. Thanks! I'm sort of annoyed because I have no idea where I picked that up.

Oh, it might be from a Susie Bright essay. That sounds plausible, at least.