Yeah. If you look at a carrot and notice it's orange, that does not disprove that all ravens are black, but that's it. Just because it doesn't disprove "all ravens are black" it it's not evidence that the statement is true. It's not "evidence" (in the classical logic sense) at all. (eta: it says nothing about the assertion either way, as it is not proof.) Jessica is right - the only possible evidence is either find one non-black raven and disprove the assertion, or find every nonblack thing that exists and show that they are not ravens, thus proving the assertion.
All right, yes, date and shop and hang out and go to school and save the world from unspeakable demons. You know, I wanna do girlie stuff!
Buffy ,'Same Time, Same Place'
Natter 46: The FIGHTIN' 46
Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, duct tape, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.
tommyrot - Sep 06, 2006 2:40:40 pm PDT #6437 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.
Jessica - Sep 06, 2006 2:48:59 pm PDT #6438 of 10001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
What we are assuming is that ravens are black--which means that all nonblack things are ravens, by definition. The paradox seems to arise when you try and prove that assumption by observation--every black raven should then carry the same supportive weight as every orange carrot.
But "this raven is black" doesn't prove that all ravens are black either, which is I guess where I'm getting hung up. It proves "Some A's are B's" not "All A's are B's" (And the same for the carrot -- one orange carrot proves that some non-ravens are non-black.) They carry equal weight, but neither of them is evidence enough to prove "all ravens are black."
Jessica - Sep 06, 2006 2:51:33 pm PDT #6439 of 10001
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
(Has the word "raven" lost all meaning for anyone else, or just me? Raven raven raven.)
tommyrot - Sep 06, 2006 2:52:06 pm PDT #6440 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.
But "this raven is black" doesn't prove that all ravens are black either
That's true. Boolean logic is actually rather limited in the things you can do with it. I mean, it's great for computer programming and math and what-not, but in the real world, NSM.
Lee - Sep 06, 2006 2:52:49 pm PDT #6441 of 10001
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.
Raven raven raven.
badger badger badger
tommyrot - Sep 06, 2006 2:53:05 pm PDT #6442 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.
Has the word "raven" lost all meaning for anyone else, or just me?
Nevermore.
amych - Sep 06, 2006 2:54:00 pm PDT #6443 of 10001
Now let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?
I've just realized two things: First, I think I went to high school with a "Raven", or possibly more than one. Second, I should've said ~q~p about a page and a half ago when I said ~p~q.
tommyrot - Sep 06, 2006 2:55:37 pm PDT #6444 of 10001
Sir, it's not an offence to let your cat eat your bacon. Okay? And we don't arrest cats, I'm very sorry.
First, I think I went to high school with a "Raven", or possibly more than one.
Were they black?
Sean K - Sep 06, 2006 2:57:38 pm PDT #6445 of 10001
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty
Nevermore.
Nethernore
(Probably nobody here but me is going to get that, and explaining it would make it the exact opposite of funny)
§ ita § - Sep 06, 2006 2:57:57 pm PDT #6446 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
But "this raven is black" doesn't prove that all ravens are black either, which is I guess where I'm getting hung up
From what I gather it's the paradox inherent in trying to prove the assertion by compiling examples that support it. So you already know the answer.
First, I think I went to high school with a "Raven", or possibly more than one.
Were they black?