Well, there's always the gumball machine option.

It seemed like they were having a fairly weird post-feminist discussion about the whole thing, honestly. "How come I have to buy you a present? What do I get??" "My hand in marriage. Anyway, I like jewelry!" "But they say three months' salary! That's crazy!!" "Yes, it is crazy. I don't want that." "But, but... a'lksjdf;aljksdf."

Well, the problem with the original study is that it's comparing apples and oranges. What I was trying to do was riff on the research question, and attempt to fix the problem with the study by looking at it apple-wise, and orange-wise.

I don't think the study was trying to determine effectiveness. They were just measuring the force generated by different martial arts techniques. They're looking at it from a scientific standpoint, not who's going to win in a street fight. In which case, I think it's valid to say "A trained boxer can punch this hard, while a karateka punches this hard, so boxers punch harder." Granted, I don't know how many practicioners of each art they studied, as force can vary from person to person. Ideally they should have multiple from each art, each with a different height and weight, and then match that height and weight among the practioners of all the arts. It's possible some techniques generate more force when applied by people with different body mechanics.

silly cutiehead couples.

What Kalshane said.

The question/method you're proposing, Nutty, doesn't seem like it can be applied to anything. So I ask more details.

I would suggest that boxing has a long tradition of stand-up fighting before it became a formalized, competitive sport. Kids on a playground, and their parents in a bar, have been assuming a boxing stance -- hands up at the face, jabbing with the closed fist, aiming for the head -- for a long, long time

That's not boxing. That's punching. Lots of people punch. Boxing is when you say "Okay, no elbows, no kicking, no punching below the belt, etc, etc." It's the rules that set it aside from just striking with a closed fist.

I punch lots. I avoid boxing, because even when I'm limited to just punching, I won't play if I don't get to punch legs and groin. Boxing doesn't interest me, except in their focus on sweet footwork.

I apologise for making you squirm Nutty. I hate things I don't understand, especially when they're on topics I do. So I get bulldoggish, but it's unemotionally so, and it still isn't something I remember that other people don't feel unemotional about it.

It seemed like they were having a fairly weird post-feminist discussion about the whole thing, honestly. "How come I have to buy you a present? What do I get??" "My hand in marriage. Anyway, I like jewelry!" "But they say three months' salary! That's crazy!!" "Yes, it is crazy. I don't want that." "But, but... a'lksjdf;aljksdf."

I've had this conversation. In the end, I suggested an 'engagement computer' that we could both use. Seemed practical to me, though having to buy something to solidify a commitment is a strange thing.

we had a similar conversation and decided that we would get me a ring when I saw it and said WANT. I wanted to get him something too... but my finances precluded it for a long time... and then we bought a house... but we had a very fun and mellow engagement process.

The "three months salary" thing has always confused me. Fortunately, I got engaged in college when neither of us had a job, which made it really easy to calculate -- three months of nothing is still nothing. (I still don't know exactly how much he spent on the ring -- I told him I didn't want him to spend too much, but I let him decide how much "too much" was.)

Boxing is when you say "Okay, no elbows, no kicking, no punching below the belt, etc, etc." It's the rules that set it aside from just striking with a closed fist.

When I think of boxing, I think more about the style (how the punches are thrown, the foot work, etc) rather than the rules of the ring. Just like when I think of Tae Kwon Do, I think about the techniques, not the point fighting or the silly "sport" no punching to the head rules. Though I will grant that when most people think of boxing, they think of the sport, whereas with most martial arts, they think about the form itself.

The again, my Medieval Longsword instructors referred to sparring as "fencing" even though it pays little simularity to what the general public thinks of as "fencing." (Lateral movement, 3-second grappling and takes-downs, strikes, kicks, pommel blows, and hooks with the cross guard vs. linear movement to point with right of way and only the sword is in play.) So I guess it depends from person to person.

Seekrit message for msbelle: where should we start the discussion of how last night's Eureka featured a shirtless and Hawt Colin?

I thought it was two months, or rather, it used to be two months, but even then, I don't know that I know anyone who abided by that. With the price of the products inflated over time, it doesn't seem right the months-salary part ought to get inflated, too.