Pookah is so cute! Happy Birthday again, Deena! I'm glad you had a good day.

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PUPPY!

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Maybe you can offer some Portland traffic advice - I don't wanna get stuck again. What hours should we just plain avoid trying to get through on 5?

I would avoid it from about 4 to 6:30 to be safe. Though I've only hit traffic in a much narrower band.

Might want to check with Pete or Jilli (hi Pete and Jilli!) to see if there are any areas to worry about north of Portland.

Will you guys maybe have time for a cup of coffee about ten miles south of Portland? I won't even bring a clicky stick...

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I LOVE PUPPIES!

We saw so many puppies, and they were all cute, but there was always something not quite right. Several that the kids liked seemed too fragile to be left alone with them; one I liked they were afraid of; one we wanted to adopt from the animal shelter had to be put down.

This puppy, though, I sat on the floor and the lady put him down, and he ran right up the front of me and kissed my whole face and now, we're in love. He's so sweet and the babies love him too.

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Aww, Happy Birthday Deena! And congratulations on the new puppy -- so adorable.

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Such a cute puppy!

Happy Birthday, Deena!

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Thank you both!

I'm supposed to be heading for bed, despite the fact that my birthday has 5 minutes left on it. Ah well. It's been an absolutely stellar day.

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Cass, I want to stop and say hello...it really just depends on timing. How late can we bug you.

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Did you notice yesterday, how I just posted about the heat, and left? I had a whole post (in part in response to Strega's assertion that God's benevolence was a NT retcon), and the Job story, and the Abram-Isaac sacrifice, and how it's funny to me that sometimes, some atheists are as fundy as some of the fundiest fundies I've ever met/read, when it comes to understanding the idea of biblical inspiration as if the inspired turn from human being in to human dictaphone.

Coming in very late, but I agree. I've read some fascinating bits on where this whole notion of literalism came from. A reaction to science, and the encroachment of science on areas religion once regarded as its domain is one, of course. Another was a sustained encounter with Islam after large portions of the Muslim world were incorporated into the British Empire.

Saw an interview with Margaret Atwood the other day where she was saying that she was raised a strict Agnostic -- and that Athiesm, by virtue of believing firmly something scientifically unprovable was just as much a religion as any other. It was v. interesting.

With this I disagree. Imagine a culture with no concept of God whatsoever. The idea's just never occurred to them. BY definition, they're all atheists; they don't believe in God. But they won't even have 'atheist' in their vocabulary. They have no need for the term. To me it would be a rather large distortion of the concept to claim their atheism was a religion. IOW, I think the analogy to the off switch on a TV is a good one, or possibly in this case to not having a TV at all.

IMO, most atheists are closer to this position than to that of a religious person. It doesn't play a particular role in their moral centre. It isn't terribly important to their metaphysics (indeed, they probably hardly ever think about such a thing, and then generally when someone else brings it up). And so on.

This may be a cultural thing. America seems to regard 'atheist' as an insult the way it does 'liberal', so if you're going to self-identify there, maybe you need to be more committed to an anti-position.

*For me*, atheism is less about "there is no god" and more about "I do not believe in god." And maybe that distinction is part of the divide between the more evangelically-oriented atheists and the not-interested atheists. I have no need or desire to convince anyone of anything; I know what I do and do not believe, and I know that I didn't come to (or come to articulate) those beliefs lightly.

I like this distinction. The rest of what Brenda said resonates with me too.

I've prefer the term agnostic. - because somewhere along the line i read a definition that said something along the line that the question - does god exsist or not exsist is not an important question. and to me it really isn't.

In my case, I'm comfortable with being described as an agnostic. I don't know whether God exists, and the first step towards my ceasing to be a Christian was reaching the conclusion that the question of GOd's existence wasn't so important. But I self-describe as an atheist, because I don't believe in God either, and that's more relevant to the way I see myself.

Do people really run into proselytizing atheists?

I've come across them on the internet (of course)! When I was on Time Online's Faith board, there were a couple of regulars who were in that position. I found them to be, well, difficult. And rude, and on occasion really quite abusive. They also believed that Jesus never existed, which is not a logically impossible position to take, but given the effects of said life (such as a church founded in his name) it seems to me to be a little difficult to justify.

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Cass, I want to stop and say hello...it really just depends on timing. How late can we bug you.

Midnight?

If you are on your way down, ring me.

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